E14 - The Case for Cursing

[00:00:00] Jeff: This week, we let the expletives fly. Welcome to Subpar Talks.

Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks, where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff. 

[00:00:27] Chris: And I'm Chris. 

[00:00:28] Jeff: Thank you so much for joining us. And before we get into this week's topic, we do have our standard disclaimer as always, and you can say it with us by now, listener discretion advised. There will be profanity. Ooh, especially in today's episode, there's gonna be a lot of it. 

[00:00:46] Chris: We're taking it to a whole other level. 

[00:00:49] Jeff: We are definitely. And from time to time on this podcast, we will hit on some hot button issues. And the thing is, we inject our humor into all of this stuff. So if that is not your cup of tea, that's OK. This podcast might not be for you. But for the rest of you, sit back, grab your favorite beverage, and here we go with this week's topic.

We are talking about swearing, cursing, cussing. So there's an article from The Atlantic by, uh, Arthur Brooks is the person who wrote this, and it is called The Case for Mindful Cursing. And so it's got some interesting facts in it. Um, Chris and I are gonna talk about this, but just about cursing in general, I suppose. And here's a good starting point, I guess. Uh, Chris, I, I, I obviously know you and yes, you curse. But notice the article at the beginning talked about how much cursing has increased, especially over the past couple of years because of Covid, I guess. We've all been cooped up. Do you find yourself cursing more in the past couple of years than you used to? Because I do. 

[00:02:09] Chris: That's, yeah, that's possible. I, I have no problem with it personally, but I've always been a little measured, depending on who I'm around. You know? Especially if I don't know the people, then I might not, because I know, obviously, certain people would find it offensive. I don't have anything to prove. I'm not trying to be offensive. So, like I, I watch it when I'm around people that I just don't know. If it's around people that I know and certainly know that they're comfortable about it, then it's not a problem. But yeah, I think there's a lot more to curse about in the last two or three years. I mean, Covid is just one of the many things. 

[00:02:52] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. One of many. So did you, I mean, I'll give my, I'll give my, uh, rundown in a second. Did you grow up cursing? Like, say for instance in high school, did you, were you dropping F bombs between classes or whatever during class? 

[00:03:10] Chris: So, this is really, it's kind of shocking to me looking back on it, but I remember when I was like in third and fourth grade and started hearing other kids doing it, it was a complete culture shock to me. I did not grow up around it at all. Like nobody around me in my family, other encounters, anything like that, nobody did it. So the only time I was ever hearing it was at school. And the first times that I started hearing it at school, were third and fourth grade, and I was pretty shocked by it. I mean, obviously I know it's out there, but hearing other kids your age, at that age, doing it was a bigger deal. By the spring semester of my fourth grade year, whoa, I was in the middle of it all. And I was like that for probably a couple of years. And just like anything and everything around friends, I would just let the expletives fly. And, and then something happened to me where I, I don't know, pulled it back a little bit, I guess.

[00:04:22] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:04:24] Chris: Not that I thought there was anything wrong with it, but is it just too much? Like, why? 

[00:04:31] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:04:32] Chris: And so, then to answer your question, I, I think through the rest of my school time, it wasn't that I avoided it, but I think in the beginning it was kind of like the newness was this novelty. So, ooh, let's do this. And I think as that wore off, then I became a little more, if you wanna say, mature about it and, let's just do it when it feels necessary. 

[00:04:58] Jeff: Yeah. So I didn't, I I'm like you, I did not grow up cursing. And, I mean, our, our backgrounds are similar, but I think it's safe to say that I grew up in a religious household and we were taught from the get go, you don't curse. Like, that's bad, and you know, we can point to passages in the Bible about, you know, profane language or whatever. So you're supposed to keep your language pure, whatever. And so I was just, from that standpoint, I was scared. Like if I curse well, I'm, I mean, I'm going to hell, like this is bad.

[00:05:39] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:05:39] Jeff: God's gonna be unhappy with me and strike me down or whatever, so I can't do that. But then I'm kind of like you. It wasn't in the fourth grade, you heathen. But, but like in the, like in the seventh. 

[00:05:54] Chris: Well, I was in a public school, so... 

[00:05:56] Jeff: True, OK. That's another thing. I was in a private Christian school. 

[00:05:59] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:06:00] Jeff: And I don't know what happened, but some, at some point in the seventh grade, I became enamored with the word shit. And so I started dropping that, not around my parents. And, I mean, a lot of the people that I was around, I thought they would look down on me if I did use that word. So it was around people who I suspected would be OK if I said that word. And I would just say it to myself, you know, for whatever reason. Oh shit, I have math homework tonight, or just stuff like that. But then I'm kind of like you. I fell out of it for whatever reason. Maybe I came around to the fact that God's just days away from striking me down if I keep doing this. So I need to stop. But obviously, yeah, I curse now and depending on the day and the situation, sometimes like a sailor.

[00:06:52] Chris: So how do you feel about? Are you kind of like what I said, do you, do you feel controlled about it, meaning you're free with it around certain people and not around others? Do you think about it? 

[00:07:07] Jeff: Yeah, most definitely. Um, here at home around my wife, I'll, I'll let it all fly. Around the kids? No, not yet. But, I mean, considering what you were hearing back in the fourth grade or, and earlier, I know they've heard it all. And especially with online interaction now. I mean, it's all out there, so... 

[00:07:33] Chris: That changes things a lot. 

[00:07:35] Jeff: Yeah, it does. It kind of makes me wonder like, why aren't you cursing yet in front of your kids? But, that'll come. But, but like at work, I'm a lot more measured. Right. And again, it's who are you around, and exactly what are you saying, and all that. So...

[00:07:52] Chris: Do you at work? 

[00:07:53] Jeff: It depends on, if I do it at work, it depends on who I'm talking to. Just generally when I'm teaching, I don't. 

[00:08:04] Chris: Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that, I mean, that's the same way that I am. Like, I have customer interactions, vendor interactions. I'm not gonna do it in those cases for sure. But with other employees, I might, and that's only depending on how much I work with those particular employees. If it's another employee that I have kind of sporadic, um, contact with or just in general, just don't know them as well, whatever, then I'm not going to. Other people that I might talk to frequently and especially that I know they're OK with it, then sure, why not. 

[00:08:43] Jeff: Yeah. So the beginning of this article, and I'm gonna, I'll, I'll post a link to this in the episode notes, but did you see that the rate of women cursing is up? Back in 1986, men were responsible for 67% of public swearing in 1986. In 2006, that was down to 55%. So women are cursing a lot more than they once did. And I don't know the studies sought to explain that, but I do find that interesting. 

[00:09:18] Chris: What do you think about that? 

[00:09:19] Jeff: Well, I mean, I personally, I don't mind it. And I'll say this, whether it is a man or a woman, when I am talking to them and I don't really know them that well, uh, or I only know 'em casually and I do hear them curse, it feels like a, a bit of a relief to me. Because now I feel like, OK, those are my people. Like they, they're gonna be more like me, and I can be more myself around them, rather than tiptoeing, walking on eggshells, wondering what I'm gonna say and they might be offended or whatever. If somebody drops a shit or a fuck around me, that makes me feel comfortable. Does that make sense? 

[00:10:07] Chris: Yeah, you're just not gonna be the first one to do it. 

[00:10:09] Jeff: No, I won't. No. At least not yet. 

[00:10:12] Chris: So, so, OK, so you said shit and fuck. Do you think of those in different degrees? 

[00:10:20] Jeff: How so? Oh, compared, the two compared. 

[00:10:23] Chris: Yeah. Do you find one worse than the other? If somebody says shit versus somebody saying fuck, are those comparatively better or worse? Not as bad? 

[00:10:35] Jeff: I think, I think shit is the milder of the two. 

[00:10:42] Chris: OK, I would say the same. 

[00:10:44] Jeff: So this article also talks about why people curse. I found this interesting. So more than half of the voluntary cursing, and yes, there is involuntary cursing like...

[00:10:55] Chris: I thought that was funny.

[00:10:57] Jeff: But voluntary cursing that people do, uh, more than half of it follows anger and frustration. So, that makes total sense, and I think that's, I need to measure if I could myself, like why I curse in a particular day or over a week or whatever. Why did I? But anger and frustration, yes, for sure. 9%, I'm surprised this is not higher, 9% of it follows humor, and 6% follows pain. 

[00:11:28] Chris: Actually, both of those surprised me. 

[00:11:31] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:11:31] Chris: I would think pain is an excellent reason. 

[00:11:34] Jeff: Exactly. Like you stubbed your toe, fuck or fuck me. 

[00:11:38] Chris: Yep. You fucking kidding me, again? 

[00:11:41] Jeff: Again with this shit? Yeah. OK, so we're talking about the setting and, and, yes, I mean, we both agree that it, it does depend on the setting, but this is taken straight from the article. According to psychologist Timothy B. Jay, cursing out of hostility is a defining feature of people with the so-called Type A personality, which is typically associated with being competitive and aggressive. I'm raising my hand right now cause, that's me. 

[00:12:11] Chris: OK. So, that surprises me. You're, you're saying that you classify yourself as a Type A personality?

[00:12:19] Jeff: Well, OK. I, I don't know about the aggressive part, and I don't know how much Type A versus Type B I am. But the competitiveness, that's definitely in me for sure. Yeah. 

[00:12:33] Chris: OK. All right. So the, this is me privately. I don't, like, do this to other people, but when I'm in the car, and particularly by myself, I don't like to subject a passenger to my feelings, but oh my gosh, I'll just let it fly when there are fools all over the road and I get pissed off on a daily basis at what people are doing out there. And particularly, and when I say that, it's people not knowing the general rules of the road. Like, this is what you do, this is what you don't do, this is how you do it.

[00:13:17] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:13:17] Chris: And then, people just decide to slow down, stop in the road to question whether they want to turn, whatever, like they're the only car on the road. There's all kinds of situations where I can let it go, but I, I'm gonna say 95% of the time, I don't direct whatever that is out toward that other person. 

[00:13:42] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:13:42] Chris: Sometimes I'll lay on my horn or something, but I'm not even the person that'll go by cussing them out, flipping 'em off, whatever. 

[00:13:49] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:13:49] Chris: I also don't want to get shot. 

[00:13:51] Jeff: Well, that's another thing. That's always my thought. Welcome to America. But if this person that I'm arguing with or that I flip off or whatever, how do I know they don't have a gun under the seat, and they've like, whatever just happened between us is the last straw for that person. I don't know that. 

[00:14:10] Chris: Yeah. I've had other passengers in the car with me and say whatever that person just did to me, they're lucky that I'm not one of those people. Because if I were...

[00:14:21] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:14:21] Chris: They just bought, they just bought the opportunity to get shot by the wrong person, I mean . or whatever. I mean, just ram them with your car, it doesn't matter. It's amazing to me how free people on the road can feel at cussing you out, flipping you off, whatever. Like, holy shit man, calm the fuck down. I mean, me doing it privately is one thing. But you direct it toward me, you have no idea who you're directing it to. 

[00:14:51] Jeff: Yep..

[00:14:51] Chris: I'm serious. You're just lucky that I'm not one of those people because you're gonna do it to the wrong person one day. 

[00:14:59] Jeff: That's absolutely true. This article also says, researchers have found that doctors, that doctors who curse in front of their patients are seen as less trustworthy and less expert than those who don't. Can you imagine your doctor cursing in front of you? Well, you got a big fucking tumor on your liver. 

[00:15:20] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:15:22] Jeff: I cannot imagine that. 

[00:15:24] Chris: No. 

[00:15:24] Jeff: But evidently it happens because it's included in this. 

[00:15:27] Chris: Yeah, it's like, well, you're going down the shitter today. 

[00:15:30] Jeff: Yeah. Right. I just can't imagine that. But, as I said, I guess it happens. There's another study that the article quotes. In 2017, researchers found across three separate studies, including the one, the one that analyzed almost 74,000 social media interactions that "profanity was associated with less lying and deception". So I would like to get some elaboration on that, but it's like if people are dropping F-bombs in front of you, you're seen as more authentic, which, that surprises me.

[00:16:06] Chris: Yeah, well see, that kind of struck me in a positive way. Because I think it kind of goes back to, to what we were talking about, is if this is something that you would normally do, but now you are not doing it around certain people, then you are mindfully controlling what you're saying. So, are you not being as authentic?

[00:16:34] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:16:35] Chris: You know, are you not putting your true feelings out there? So this article made the, the distinction between, what did it say? Swearing and cursing. And the curse was directing it to a person. 

[00:16:50] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:16:50] Chris: You know, like, this is at you. And so I, I don't like that from the standpoint that it's a personal attack. And so then that way it doesn't really matter if you're putting curse words into it or not. No one likes to be personally attacked. But, I do think there's a line there between ...there's some people where they cannot ...it's like they cannot communicate without cussing. Like they don't know how to put words together. You know, like you hear that. Use your words. 

[00:17:27] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:17:27] Chris: You know? Do you have a larger vocabulary? 

[00:17:31] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:17:31] Chris: Because, there are literally curse words every other two or three words. That's annoying to me. Like, what are you saying? Can you communicate in any other way? But to me, I think if you are, I'm gonna say pepper it in, like it's not the message that you're communicating, it puts some additional feelings, sentiment, exclamation into it. It does add to the expression. And so, coming back around to that, getting to, you know, are you being honest? Are you being forthright? Are you really putting your true feelings out there? Sometimes I think I can be beneficial, like I am really fucking pissed about this. You know, that adds to. This just lets you know the level of how I feel about it. And if you don't say that, then it could be taken as, oh, he was kind of upset, but... But if I say that you're gonna go, oh man, he was really upset.

[00:18:42] Jeff: Yeah, right. Yeah, your true feelings. So did you see also they've also linked cursing to being able to reduce physical pain. And the way they measured that, and at least in this study, cited in the article, is they had respondents put their hand in a bowl of freezing water. So, I meant at frigid water. So, put your hand in the bowl, and then they told half the respondents to use certain words that were not curse words. They were just, I don't know if they were made up words or, or just not curse words, but actual words. And then the other half they told them to curse, say whatever. And then they had 'em describe their pain level after the fact. And the people who cursed, they rated their pain lower . 

[00:19:35] Chris: So, isn't that fascinating? 

[00:19:37] Jeff: Yeah, it really is. 

[00:19:39] Chris: Uh, I mean, I get it. Uh, that's just it, that that's why I was surprised that that percentage was so low. 

[00:19:46] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:19:46] Chris: Of people swearing after a painful event. I mean, if anything's gonna bring it out, seems like that would. But I've absolutely felt that, that something seriously hurts, it's, it's a release. I wonder about the people who don't curse in any way. What kind of a release might they feel if they did? How much do they just have pent up? 

[00:20:13] Jeff: I, I would think they would feel a big sense of relief if they would just let it fly. But that makes me wonder, why don't people curse? Is it like when I was growing up, you're gonna go to hell? I'm sure it's that way for some people. But for others, like, I don't know. And I gotta say I'm skeptical of those people. 

[00:20:34] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:20:35] Jeff: Right? 

[00:20:35] Chris: What's wrong with you? 

[00:20:36] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:20:37] Chris: Well, I, I mean, honestly, I think that religion is a huge part of it. And it's, even if the person is not particularly religious, religion, just, it overshadows so much in our society.

[00:20:56] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:20:57] Chris: Like, you may not be a participant, but you're around a ton of participants, and so many things have been influenced by that. I could see that being a huge reason. And even if it's not a conscious reason. But you may not even think, oh, that's why I don't. But it could be you've been around so many other people that didn't, and that's why they didn't. So that's why you don't. 

[00:21:24] Jeff: So the, the point of this article, I guess, is, is to be instructive. And it was, I, I found it instructive on a lot of levels. This author gives some tips and I think it's pretty wise. If you're gonna curse, number one, do it on purpose. And that's what you were getting at before, when people just do it like, repetitively and it becomes annoying, I think is the word you used. I used to work with somebody who did that, and it was like he did not know how to string two sentences together without using the word fucking. He would say fucking. And it was like a filler word. Like, instead of saying uh... 

[00:22:04] Chris: Yes. 

[00:22:04] Jeff: He would go fucking. And he would say, uh, do you remember that, that movie with, uh, the fucking, uh, like that. And he would do that over and over. And it drove me insane. I don't have a problem with the word fuck, but the way he used it, I, I was, I just couldn't, like, I couldn't talk to him like, what is wrong with you? 

[00:22:23] Chris: Yes. It, it does. It gets on your nerves. It's distracting. 

[00:22:27] Jeff: Yeah. And then his second point is to ration your cursing, which I think is good too. If you just say fuck over and over, then it's gonna lose it's meaning. It's gonna lose its, its caché. You gotta use it, um, sparingly. And we've probably all been confronted with examples of people who you don't really hear cuss, curse, swear, whatever you wanna call it. But then when they do, it's like, oh, holy shit. Like, that's a big thing, right? 

[00:23:04] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:23:04] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:23:05] Chris: Right. Yeah. 

[00:23:06] Jeff: And then this last one, don't abuse or harass. 

[00:23:10] Chris: So I was looking, uh, one of the things in this article quotes Mark Twain and says, "There ought to be a room in every house to swear in. It's dangerous to have to repress an emotion like that."

[00:23:23] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:23:24] Chris: I think that's a huge thing. It's, it's exactly what I was saying is even for the people who don't typically swear or curse, how repressed might they feel for not doing that, when now there's evidence of releasing that feeling, releasing pain, getting the emotion out, whatever, by actually doing it. 

[00:23:52] Jeff: Yeah, I have heard of that. I've heard of people having swear rooms in their house. I've heard of, or maybe it was in this article, people in a car, like in the car, you can let the expletives fly, but outside that we're not gonna do it or whatever. So, seems like a pretty good idea. But that whole thing about don't abuse or harass, like if you are, if you're doing that, and this is a lot of social media stuff and I'm about to get into social media stuff with swearing here, but I think a lot of that comes from that, because people feel emboldened behind a keyboard, you know, or on a keyboard and to abuse or harass somebody, whereas they wouldn't say that stuff to their face. 

[00:24:33] Chris: For sure. Yeah, they think that's a safe space. 

[00:24:38] Jeff: Right. So speaking of that, social media, there's an article in The Guardian by Leo Benedictus. Sounds like a Roman Emperor.

[00:24:50] Chris: Right? 

[00:24:51] Jeff: Or a Pope. Pope Leo Benedicts VI wrote this article. He's talking about a study that was done back in 2014 at Wright University, Wright State University. I have no idea. Somewhere in Ohio. Um, my apologies to the people from Wright State or whatever you're called up there. But they did a study and they looked at the most common curse words on Twitter. And they determined that roughly one out of every 13 tweets contains a curse word. Now, this was back in 2014. But if you go by the last article we referenced, cursing is on the rise, so who knows what that rate is now? But I'll get to the top 10 in a second and we can have some fun with that. But from the article, intriguingly, swearing also seems to be an early-week thing. Tweets become more and more likely to contain a swear word as the day progresses, perhaps reflecting the accumulation of things we have to swear about. And peak profanity is reached between midnight and 1:30 AM, suggesting that people who are awake at that time are, let's say, the least inhibited. Yet Friday, Saturday, and Sunday are consistently the least sweary days of the week. Does that surprise you at all? 

[00:26:14] Chris: Just kind of tells you everything you need to know.

[00:26:16] Jeff: It sure does. Yeah. 

[00:26:18] Chris: What? 12:00 and 1:30? You're talking about people who are probably sleep deprived, inebriated. They've had it with anybody and everybody from their day. 

[00:26:29] Jeff: I find that, um, I find it funny, but it makes so much sense because, I mean, think about, you're trying to ease into your day. You're getting your cup of coffee, it's like nine o'clock in the morning and you're just trying to, you know, get my feet wet a little here in my job or whatever. But I imagine by lunchtime, early afternoon, more stuff is getting annoying, and then late in the day, you're ready to go home. Yeah, it makes sense. 

[00:27:02] Chris: Oh yeah, it's building. 

[00:27:03] Jeff: And then the weekend, the least sweary days of the week as as the author put it, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Well, yeah, we're all more relaxed on the weekend, right?

[00:27:13] Chris: Right. 

[00:27:14] Jeff: Although Sunday night coming around, I'm gonna drop some F bombs cuz I gotta get up and go to work in the morning. 

[00:27:20] Chris: Now I have had my early morning times where something goes wrong. 

[00:27:24] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:27:25] Chris: And it's still early in the day, I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? This is how we're gonna get started?

[00:27:32] Jeff: Yeah. Oh yeah. We've all been there for sure. OK, so the top 10 swear words, according to this study from the university in Ohio. And I gotta say, some of these on here, I don't know how they arrived at the definition for what a curse word is. I don't know, but I don't consider at least some of these on this list to be curse words. They might not be words that you would just say at Thanksgiving dinner, but are they curse words? I don't know. And then I'm surprised some words aren't on here. But anyway, OK. Number 10 is pussy. 

[00:28:17] Chris: See, I wouldn't, well, all right. That's not a curse word, but it's offensive to people. 

[00:28:25] Jeff: Yeah, crude. 

[00:28:26] Chris: Yeah, yeah. 

[00:28:27] Jeff: That's the category I'd put it in. Like it's just, it's crass, crude, whatever. 

[00:28:32] Chris: Right. 

[00:28:33] Jeff: So...

[00:28:33] Chris: Definitely has its place. . 

[00:28:36] Jeff: Well, no doubt. I'm gonna bring up George Carlin here in a second with his famous Seven Dirty Words, you know, that you can't say on, on TV, but you know, we have FCC regulations. According to FCC regulations, you're allowed to say pussy on the air if you are calling somebody a pussy. Like... 

[00:29:02] Chris: Really?

[00:29:02] Jeff: You're, yeah, you're weak, you're a wimp. What a pussy. But if you are using pussy to refer to a part of the female anatomy, well FCC regulations don't allow that and the station can get fined. Just seems kind of arbitrary to me. But, that is the rule. 

[00:29:23] Chris: I wouldn't have thought it was OK at all. 

[00:29:25] Jeff: I wouldn't either, but I, I remember hearing that. Now when I heard that it's been like 10 years ago, and I did hear it from a reliable source, so I'm assuming it's still, still that way. All right, so number 10 was pussy. Number nine is piss . I don't consider that a curse word either.

[00:29:47] Chris: That's, no, not, that's, I would say that's less than pussy. That ought to be number 10 if it even makes the list. 

[00:29:56] Jeff: Yeah. I'm wondering why it was on the list. My dad and I would crack up at this, but there is a passage in the King James version of the Bible. That uses the word pisseth. 

[00:30:10] Chris: Pisseth..

[00:30:12] Jeff: So yeah. Crude maybe, but definitely not a curse word in my book. 

[00:30:19] Chris: That's another one. Like, I wouldn't say that around people that I don't know. 

[00:30:24] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:30:25] Chris: But, yeah, I wouldn't even call that a curse word. Just more crude. And I would watch that around people too. 

[00:30:31] Jeff: So I was thinking of urinate, but like, you can be pissed, you're mad. The Brits use pissed for drunk. Right? Somebody's pissed. 

[00:30:42] Chris: True. Of course, they use other words that are more of a problem here. I won't say it in case it's on the list. We'll get to it, but...

[00:30:52] Jeff: I think I know what you're talking about and yeah, we'll, we'll see if it made the list, but if not, then you have to enlighten everybody. Number eight is dick. 

[00:31:03] Chris: See. Same thing. 

[00:31:05] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:31:05] Chris: That's not a curse word. 

[00:31:06] Jeff: I put that, well, OK. I think the regulations are like they are with pussy with the FCC is, you can call somebody a dick, like somebody's being an asshole. You're a dick. But you cannot refer to the male anatomy as a dick. 

[00:31:25] Chris: OK, now that you say that, I have heard that on some shows. I couldn't say, well, I guess they probably were a network show, like not a cable show or something. But yeah, I remember being surprised thinking, wow, I didn't know they could say that. 

[00:31:44] Jeff: Why is another name for a detective Dick? 

[00:31:50] Chris: I don't know. Well, why is another name for Richard, Dick? 

[00:31:56] Jeff: Well, I don't know how, I don't know.

[00:31:57] Chris: How do you get that? 

[00:31:59] Jeff: It always bothers me. Like I would hear old people talk about a private dick. Like, 

[00:32:06] Chris: Yeah, like shouldn't that usually be private? 

[00:32:09] Jeff: Right. Like, Magnum PI. Yeah, he was a, he was a private dick. And, and people talk about Nixon, Tricky Dick. Like, it just makes me uncomfortable to hear people talk.

[00:32:21] Chris: Tricky Dicky. 

[00:32:22] Jeff: Talk that way. Yeah. 

[00:32:23] Chris: I know. 

[00:32:23] Jeff: I had a student once who brought me, um, she was at like a flea market or whatever, and they had old campaign buttons, and she picked up a few and brought 'em to me. And one is from 1960, I think it is, when Nixon was running as Eisenhower's, uh, vice presidential candidate. No, 1960, he was running as president. So he had already served as Eisenhower's vice president and Eisenhower's successful slogan when he was running was, I Like Ike. Right? So, in 1960, Nixon ran with that and this campaign button says, I kid you not, I Like Dick. 

[00:33:12] Chris: Are you serious? 

[00:33:13] Jeff: I am dead serious. It is a campaign button that says I like Dick with Nixon's picture.

[00:33:19] Chris: I had not heard that. That's, that's great. 

[00:33:24] Jeff: That's awesome. 

[00:33:26] Chris: Well, I just learned, I just learned recently that Tricky Dicky saying was around about that time. I thought that came out during the time he was president, but apparently that was a thing even around the time when he ran in '60. 

[00:33:45] Jeff: Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I thought it was from his, his time as president. 

[00:33:50] Chris: I think it was older than that. And so coming out of his vice presidency and I didn't realize that. 

[00:33:57] Jeff: So he was up to to no good before he ever entered the White House. 

[00:34:01] Chris: I guess. They just didn't like him. 

[00:34:03] Jeff: Yeah. All right. Number seven, again, not a curse word, whore. Crude maybe, but not a curse word. 

[00:34:12] Chris: Well, see that depends on how you're using it too. I mean, if you're calling someone that, then OK. You can say it's at least crass, abusive. 

[00:34:21] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:34:21] Chris: But it's certainly not a curse word. 

[00:34:23] Jeff: No. Uh, whore, to me that that's got a, um, stronger emphasis than prostitute or hooker. But... 

[00:34:35] Chris: Right. Cuz apparently there are classy versions of that. 

[00:34:38] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:34:39] Chris: But a whore. I mean, that's like scraping the bottom of the barrell. 

[00:34:42] Jeff: Right. There's different levels. There's like an escort, there's a call girl, and then there's whore. Yeah. 

[00:34:50] Chris: Right. 

[00:34:52] Jeff: Number six, again, not a curse word, but it's on the list. Hell. 

[00:34:59] Chris: I can't, how is that higher than the others?

[00:35:03] Jeff: Well, these are the most frequently used, so... 

[00:35:06] Chris: OK. Well it's gonna be frequent. Yeah. But, alright. 

[00:35:10] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:35:10] Chris: OK. So this is not in degrees. 

[00:35:13] Jeff: Right. Now, little, uh, little me going to church when I was growing up, you couldn't say hell unless you were talking about the bad place. 

[00:35:24] Chris: Right. 

[00:35:25] Jeff: Somebody's gonna go to Hell. But you can't tell somebody to go to Hell. That's bad. Or you can't say, what the Hell, That's bad. 

[00:35:34] Chris: No. I was told I was going to go. 

[00:35:38] Jeff: Right. 

[00:35:39] Chris: They didn't tell me to go. They told me I was going to go. 

[00:35:41] Jeff: You're going to Hell. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:35:43] Chris: Right. Apparently that's acceptable. 

[00:35:45] Jeff: Oh yeah. And I see plenty of billboards telling me I'm going to Hell too.

[00:35:50] Chris: Oh yeah. Absolutely. 

[00:35:52] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:35:52] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:35:53] Jeff: OK, number five. All right. I'm gonna say it. I don't consider it a curse word, but it is definitely a derivative of a word that is horribly offensive, but I'm gonna say it because they cited it in the study and it's number five on this list. And that word is nigga, N-I-G-G-A. 

[00:36:20] Chris: That's not a curse word.

[00:36:22] Jeff: No. 

[00:36:23] Chris: No. Offensive, yes. Not a curse word. I, see... 

[00:36:28] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:36:28] Chris: That's that, I mean, we could probably do, I don't know, that, that's a whole other segment on what even defines a curse word then. Cuz it's interesting that some of these made the list, but then we're putting in our own thoughts, feelings, whatever to say, oh yeah, that is, or no, it's not. Yeah, I would not call that a curse word. Offensive, sure. 

[00:36:55] Jeff: No, I wouldn't either. And, just as a PSA, if you're white, don't use that term. Leave that to others. 

[00:37:06] Chris: Well, and you know, Oprah did a whole lot of stuff in talking about black people using the term. She was very offended by black people using the term.

[00:37:18] Jeff: Yeah. I've heard that both ways. I've heard it, it's offensive. I've heard black people say it's offensive, shouldn't do it. And I've heard other black people say, oh, it's, it's innocuous. It doesn't mean anything. It's, it's not like N-I-G-G-E-R. It's just, uh, you know, got a different connotation to it. But I'm not, as a white person, I'm not wading into those waters like, I feel like that's a debate that should be hashed out among other people besides me. That reminds me, you know who John Mulaney is, right? The comedian? 

[00:37:55] Chris: Yes. He's great. 

[00:37:57] Jeff: Yeah, he is funny. He's got some specials on Netflix and, and, uh, people should check him out. But, he's got this bit where he was a writer on Saturday Night Live and one of his, one of his skits that he wrote had the word midget in it. And he was running that past the, whoever, the editors or whatever, at Saturday Night Live, and they said, we can't use that word. And he was like, why not? And they said, it's really offensive. And, they went back and forth, and then the, the editor, whoever, said that word is just as offensive as the N word. And he responded, and I agree, if it's just as offensive as the N word, then why are we not even saying the other word? Like, we're saying the word midget. We can say that word, but the other word is, in other words, if the word that you're comparing it to, you can't even say, that's the more offensive word.

[00:39:06] Chris: That's, yep. That's the worst one.

[00:39:09] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:39:10] Chris: I love the way he said that. He said, no it's not. 

[00:39:14] Jeff: Right. Yeah. So it makes me wonder, whatever happened to that skit? Did they end up using the word midget or not? I don't, I don't know. I remember Mickey in Seinfeld got upset when George used that term. 

[00:39:27] Chris: Yes. Little people. 

[00:39:30] Jeff: Right. OK. Number four is bitch.

[00:39:36] Chris: OK, I would, I would agree that that's getting into curse word territory but again, you know, it all depends on how you say it. You say it to, I guess it's the to someone versus at someone. 

[00:39:51] Jeff: Right. And it always cracks me up when these hoity toity dog people, breeders or whatever, like the Westminster Dog Show people and they just throw out the term bitch like it's nothing. And, and that'll be captioned at the bottom of the screen or whatever. Like, two year old bitch. 

[00:40:14] Chris: Right. 

[00:40:14] Jeff: That just cracks me up. So bitch. Son of a bitch. Yeah. That was definitely off limits.

[00:40:22] Chris: Sons of bitches.

[00:40:22] Jeff: Sons of bitches, yes. That was definitely off limits when I was growing up. Yeah. Don't say, can't say bitch. No way. In any context. Number three, ass. So, curse word?

[00:40:39] Chris: Uh, maybe. I mean, it's, it's definitely on the, the lighter end of it. I would say that could fall, that's kind of a cross, I think, a little bit, between the crass and curse, but... 

[00:40:53] Jeff: So speaking of FCC stuff, I remember distinctly when I first heard the word ass on network tv, and it was, uh, it was on Roseanne back in the, the, the first iteration of that show. Before we knew that Roseanne Barr was, um, Barr, Arnold, whatever her last name is now, before we knew she was crazy. John Goodman, who played her husband, said the word ass on there. And so that would've been, I don't know what year. I don't remember when that ran, but '91, '92, something like that. 

[00:41:29] Chris: OK. 

[00:41:29] Jeff: I remember being surprised that I, that they allowed that. Yeah. 

[00:41:34] Chris: Yeah. You know, one of the, one of the first things, well, they were the first, was to show a female kissing another female, and it was... 

[00:41:45] Jeff: Really?

[00:41:45] Chris: Sharon Stone kissed Roseanne, but they didn't even show it. Like they couldn't show it. They weren't allowed to show it. 

[00:41:53] Jeff: You just ruined it for me, by the way. 

[00:41:56] Chris: What? Sorry. 

[00:41:57] Jeff: You said Sharon Stone and I got excited. 

[00:42:01] Chris: I know. Well, you can, so I think Roseanne went off in '98, so you can back up like six years and go watch Basic Instinct and that'll, that'll clear it all up. But, just wipe that Roseanne right out there. 

[00:42:18] Jeff: Yeah, definitely. 

[00:42:20] Chris: But yeah, they couldn't, like, it was, it was evident. Like you knew what was happening, what was supposed to be happening, but ABC would not let them show it. 

[00:42:31] Jeff: Wow. OK. That reminds me of, you remember the show Ally McBeal? 

[00:42:39] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:42:40] Jeff: They were, so what was that on? Was that on Fox? I think it was on Fox. 

[00:42:47] Chris: Sounds right. 

[00:42:48] Jeff: I know that she had a kissing scene with, I don't remember who the other actress was, but that was a big deal. And I wanna say that was like '99, 2000, something like that. And I remember everybody talking about it, and I never watched the show, but that was all over the news. OK. 

[00:43:08] Chris: Wow. I did watch the show. I don't remember that, but that's, that's interesting. 

[00:43:14] Jeff: Number two, shit. 

[00:43:17] Chris: OK. 

[00:43:18] Jeff: That's curse word, right? 

[00:43:19] Chris: Well, now we're talking. 

[00:43:21] Jeff: Yeah. Now we're in full-fledged cursing territory, shit. 

[00:43:25] Chris: Right. 

[00:43:25] Jeff: Yeah. Definitely a curse word. Definitely off limits. I, I'm assuming all of these, I'd have to scroll back up the list, but yeah, all these were off limits for me growing up. But, shit, yeah, shit fits so many categories. Like, and any derivative of that or any offshoot of it, like that's complete shit, or just shit, or bullshit, horse shit. 

[00:43:51] Chris: Yes. 

[00:43:51] Jeff: Just there's a lot there. It's very flexible, and I like it. 

[00:43:56] Chris: It's, it's an amazing word. 

[00:43:58] Jeff: It is. It is. 

[00:44:00] Chris: There's good shit too. Oh, that's good shit. 

[00:44:03] Jeff: Yeah. Oh, that reminds me. So, I went to a, again, private Christian school growing up and this, so this would've been in the nineties, this police officer was coming to talk to us, school wide assembly in high school, and he was coming to talk to us about drugs and why they're bad and you know, shouldn't do 'em and all that stuff. And he was saying, you know, somebody will be trying to get you to try drugs, get you to sell or, uh, trying to sell you drugs, and they'll say, hey man, this is some good shit. And you would've thought, like we erupted. Like people were laughing and looking around like, is he gonna be able to continue to talk? Is somebody gonna just... 

[00:44:51] Chris: I bet. 

[00:44:51] Jeff: Rake him off the stage with a cane or whatever, like... 

[00:44:55] Chris: Did he know where he was? 

[00:44:57] Jeff: I did, that's what I always wondered, like, why would you say that to this crowd? But I found it hilarious. 

[00:45:04] Chris: That is hilarious. 

[00:45:06] Jeff: Number one. You know what it is? Fuck. 

[00:45:10] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:45:11] Jeff: Fuck. 

[00:45:11] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:45:12] Jeff: Fucker. Motherfucker. Yeah. That's also a good word. 

[00:45:17] Chris: Fuck that shit. Fucking shit. 

[00:45:19] Jeff: Yes. Yes. Those go well together too. They do. Fucking shit. I don't know shit about fuck, to quote, to quote. uh... 

[00:45:30] Chris: Oh my gosh.

[00:45:30] Jeff: Ruth Langhorn from Ozark. 

[00:45:33] Chris: Langmore?

[00:45:34] Jeff: Oh, what'd I say? Langhorn? 

[00:45:38] Chris: Langhorn, yeah. 

[00:45:40] Jeff: Whatever. 

[00:45:41] Chris: No, that was, oh my gosh, that was hilarious as shit. I don't know shit about fuck. 

[00:45:46] Jeff: Such a great line. 

[00:45:48] Chris: Well, I've had to, I've had to claim it cuz there's plenty of times I can use that honestly. And it works. 

[00:45:54] Jeff: Yeah. So I'm curious of these. So I'll run down the list again. This'll be fun. Pussy, piss, dick, whore, hell, nigga, bitch, ass, shit, fuck. I sound like I'm rapping. Which of these do you use the most? 

[00:46:12] Chris: Uh, it's gotta be shit or fuck. 

[00:46:15] Jeff: Yeah. Same. 

[00:46:17] Chris: I mean, they work really well. 

[00:46:19] Jeff: They really do. I never, I never use the word whore. Like, I don't, just, I don't have an occasion to, I guess. I use hell for sure. Like, what the hell. I don't really use dick, piss, or pussy. Like, I just don't have an occasion to say those words. But, bitch sometimes, ass sometimes, but shit and fuck eclipse all the others for sure. 

[00:46:45] Chris: I probably say bitch more out of comedy, and I picked up from Jesse on Breaking Bad. I go, what a bitch.

[00:46:54] Jeff: Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yes. 

[00:46:57] Chris: Or just end any sentence with bitch. 

[00:47:00] Jeff: With bitch. 

[00:47:02] Chris: Yo, bitch. 

[00:47:04] Jeff: So I referenced George Carlin's bit from the early seventies. I want to say it's like 1971 or '72, but he had this bit. If anybody doesn't know, The Seven Dirty Words You Can't Say On Television. And he went through all these, and as George Carlin could do like nobody else, he dissected the words and it's hilarious. And if you haven't listened to it, you should go and and give it a listen. It's, uh, what, like 50 years old now. But it's, it's so funny. But that is the, that's the case that ended up in the US Supreme Court because there was a guy riding with his son in the car like mid-afternoon one day, and this radio station in California is playing that bit, and this guy is horrified, like, oh my God, my son's ears are gonna fall off or whatever, listening to this stuff. And so there's a big lawsuit and it, it wasn't about whether George Carlin could say that stuff. It, it was all about whether the FCC could regulate that kind of material. And the Supreme Court said yeah. But if you're wondering, George Carlin's seven dirty words that you cannot say on TV. And I think he's right. Shit, piss, fuck, cunt, cocksucker, motherfucker, and tits. So those are the, those are the words. Yeah. 

[00:48:36] Chris: Yeah, see, and some of those did not make the, the top 10. 

[00:48:40] Jeff: Right. 

[00:48:41] Chris: So, the one I was thinking of was cunt. Totally different in the US than in England.

[00:48:49] Jeff: I think it's more prevalent over there than it is here. And it is, like to me, that's, cunt, that's right up there with shit and fuck. Like that's, that's a heavy hitting curse word right there. Yeah. 

[00:49:04] Chris: It is, and particularly, I mean, there's plenty of people that don't want to hear it at all. But it's that much worse if it's directed, you know, it's the, that, that whole thing of saying it to someone versus saying it at them. 

[00:49:19] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:49:20] Chris: Like if you're saying it at someone like, holy shit, that's, that's the worst thing you could have ever done. 

[00:49:27] Jeff: Yeah. And, uh, with tits, it reminds me of two things. So, in Seinfeld, when Kramer kicked Newman out of the mail truck, when they were hauling the bottles and cans to Michigan, because he had to lighten the load, so he kicked Newman out and Newman ends up in the farmhouse. And, uh, the farmer's daughter's there, eyeing Newman. And so Newman's all excited about that, right? But he is trying to hide it because the dad is sitting right next to him. And, uh, he asked him if he wants to milk the cows. And Newman says, well, I don't really have any experience or whatever he says. And the, the farmer, dad says, oh, it's not that difficult, just gotta grab hold of the teat and pull, or whatever he says after that. 

[00:50:17] Chris: And then Newman looks over at the daughter. 

[00:50:19] Jeff: At the girl, yeah. It's such a great scene. And then there's an Office episode and you might know which one it is. I don't remember. But Dwight is talking to somebody and he says something along the lines of turnabout is fair play. And instead of saying tit for tat, he says tit for tit. Do you remember that? 

[00:50:45] Chris: I don't, I can't remember when that was. 

[00:50:49] Jeff: I, I'd have to, to look it up. But yeah, tit for tit. And I'm, I remember seeing that and being surprised that the sensors were cool with that. 

[00:51:00] Chris: No kidding. 

[00:51:01] Jeff: And I wanted to ask you that. Do you think, I mean, in general, I think people are more accepting of curse words, but it seems like you hear more on, on network shows now, uh, or it seems like the sensors have, um, loosened their hold a little bit on things. Like you hear things on TV now that you would not have heard 30 years ago, maybe even 20 years ago. I don't know. 

[00:51:28] Chris: Yes, I think definitely. They may have felt, I don't know if that's purely a societal, cultural change, but if it's also an impact of all of the competition that they have. You know, if all of the competition is allowing it, then it's like, well, do we need to do that too to maintain our viewership? 

[00:51:51] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:51:51] Chris: If that's what people are OK with. 

[00:51:53] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:51:54] Chris: Could be a combination of all of it. 

[00:51:56] Jeff: Good point. 

[00:51:58] Chris: I remember watching, uh, the TV show Dallas, this would've been early eighties. And, uh, Sue Ellen called JR a bastard at one point. 

[00:52:08] Jeff: Really? 

[00:52:09] Chris: Yeah, and I, yeah, I was shocked. 

[00:52:11] Jeff: Wow. 

[00:52:12] Chris: I mean, like, oh wow. 

[00:52:14] Jeff: Yeah, 

[00:52:15] Chris: But honestly, even thinking back on that, that still seems surprising, that that was the early eighties and they were saying that on network TV. 

[00:52:23] Jeff: That's like when the low talker, that's the first thing we heard her say.

[00:52:29] Chris: You bastard! 

[00:52:30] Jeff: To Jerry.

There you go. That is, uh, mindful cursing and the most frequently used curse words on Twitter. And um, I think that just gives our listeners a taste of what's to come, because we let the expletives fly from time to time. Certainly did on this episode, but there will be more. And if you like this kind of stuff, if you are a fellow cursor or you're just now realizing that it's OK to curse and you're not gonna go to hell, then you are our kind of people, and we would love for you to follow us.

Whatever platform you're listening to this on, go ahead and follow us, subscribe. That way you'll get episodes delivered to you automatically. You don't even have to do anything. And while you're there, leave us a review. Go ahead and rate us if you are so inclined. Give us five stars, five goddamn fucking stars.

Go ahead and review us, you sons of bitches. Give us a, a, a review and it doesn't even matter what you say. Just the, if you leave a review there, it makes it easier for people to discover this show. And uh, again, doesn't matter what you say. If you wanna know more about us or about the show in general, you can go to our website, subpartalks.com.

You can email us, leave us a voicemail there as well. If you wanna make suggestions for topics we should cover in future episodes, we will definitely take those into consideration. Or if you just wanna say, hey, do that too. You can follow us on social media. On Twitter, we are @subpartalks. On Facebook, we are Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitters on there, I am @independentjeff. 

[00:54:17] Chris: And I am at @chrisbradfordtx. 

[00:54:20] Jeff: And finally, get the word out about Subpar Talks. Share this on social media. Talk to your friends about it, your colleagues about it, your family, whoever. Tell 'em there is a great fucking show that they should listen to.

It is gonna make 'em laugh. 

[00:54:38] Chris: And they'll learn something along the way. 

[00:54:40] Jeff: You will definitely learn something just like you did after this episode. Yeah. Always. Always gonna learn something. So you wanna let any expletives fly before we call it quits here? 

[00:54:52] Chris: I put a load out there, but I'd encourage everyone else to do it. Just... 

[00:54:57] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:54:58] Chris: Get, get the fucking shit out there. 

[00:55:02] Jeff: That's right. Let 'em fly. You'll feel better. No doubt. It's a stress reliever. All right. That is another episode of Subpar Talks. Thank you again so much for joining us, and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.