E5 - Best and Worst Jobs in America

[00:00:00] Jeff: This week is your job one of the best or worst in America? Which of these worst jobs would we take if we had to? And what have been our worst jobs? Welcome to Subpar Talks.

Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks, where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff. 

[00:00:35] Chris: And I'm Chris. 

[00:00:37] Jeff: Thank you so much for joining us for another episode. Before we get to that, we have our standard disclaimer here, listener discretion advised. Our tagline is conversations about everything, so there's really nothing off the table. And we're gonna hit on some touchy subjects from time to time on this podcast. And we're going to inject humor into those. And so if you don't think those two things coincide, then maybe this is not for you and that's OK, to each his and her own. But for those of you who do wanna stick around, we think you're in for a treat as always,

We are fresh off of Labor Day, that was not too long ago. So we have, uh, we'll call it a Labor Day special. Does that sound all right? A Labor Day special. We are gonna talk about the best and worst jobs in America. And depending on if you're on the list, I suppose it might make you really depressed about what job you're in, or maybe it'll make you happy you're in a good career.

So keep it up. That's a good thing. I pulled some stats from our good friends at Wikipedia for this, and, uh, the largest percentage of the American labor force, do you want to guess what industry that might be in? See if you can take a stab at it, Chris, the largest percentage of the American labor force.

[00:02:06] Chris: I would say government.

[00:02:08] Jeff: Government's not on there. I actually don't know what it ranked. I just took the ones that were double digits. It's actually healthcare. Healthcare comprises 16% of all American workers.

[00:02:18] Chris: OK. 

[00:02:19] Jeff: Followed by retail, 12%. And then food service is at 11%. 

[00:02:26] Chris: I wouldn't wanna be in any of those. No offense to those that are, but again, to each their own.

[00:02:32] Jeff: Yeah. Uh, spoiler alert.. I think two of those are gonna end up on a list today. You could figure out whether that's in best jobs or worst jobs. 

[00:02:44] Chris: So just really quickly on that with healthcare. I know when I was in high school, I was in an Anatomy and Physiology class, and our teacher at one point said, you know, if you think you want to be a doctor that, which I was actually thinking about at the time, he said, if you think you want to be a doctor, you need to, to ask yourself if you like being around sick people. And it's funny, I had always thought about being a doctor as yes, I want to help people. I like the, the knowledge aspect of it, the learning, the, the teaching other people, the actually helping, healing.

But I hadn't ever put it into the context of actually being around sick people. And I will never forget how much that hit me in the face is, I don't like being around sick people at all. So that changed, literally that day, changed my mind. Like, I still like this class, but I'm not gonna be a doctor. 

[00:03:47] Jeff: There you go. It's a good thing the teacher said that. You might've ended up in a career... 

[00:03:52] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:03:52] Jeff: Where you had to be around disgusting people all day. 

[00:03:55] Chris: Big mistake. 

[00:03:56] Jeff: Yeah. Stuff leaking out of orifices and some kind of weird smell. 

[00:04:02] Chris: Leaky hands.

[00:04:03] Jeff: And yeah. All right. Um, last stat here, the unemployment rate right now, as of this recording is 3.5%. Which is low. That is the lowest it's been since 1969. 

[00:04:19] Chris: It's crazy low. 

[00:04:21] Jeff: Compare that with the beginning of COVID in April of 2020, the unemployment rate was 14.7%. So what we're gonna do, we're gonna do the best, uh, the 10 best jobs in America. And then we'll get to the 10 worst jobs in America. This first set of jobs is taken from the US News and World Report.

Uh, and this is fresh off the press. So hot off the press, 2022 is what this data is taken from. And so they rank jobs, before we get going here, they rank jobs on an overall list, best paying jobs. So they have a bunch of lists on their website but, they ranked a bunch of different categories, like best business jobs, best education jobs, best healthcare jobs, whatever. Uh, best jobs without a degree and so on, and so on.

And then they ranked them based on their calculated overall score, which combines multiple components into a single weighted average score between zero and 10. And the overall score is calculated from seven component measures: median salary, unemployment, rate among people in that profession, that particular job, 10 year growth volume, 10 year growth percentage, future job prospects, uh, stress level, and work life balance rounds out all those component areas.

All right, so we're gonna go 10 to one best jobs in the US. Are you ready? 

[00:05:52] Chris: Ready.

[00:05:54] Jeff: All right. Number 10 is a speech pathologist. What do you know about speech pathologists? 

[00:06:03] Chris: Very little. Just, um, thinking speech therapy, helping correct impediments, things like that. 

[00:06:11] Jeff: So, uh, yeah, that's exactly what it is. Speech language pathologists evaluate, diagnose, and treat people with speech language or swallowing difficulties.

[00:06:20] Chris: See, I didn't know that. 

[00:06:22] Jeff: I had to swallow right when I read that. You know what I heard? I remember hearing about, this is when I was little and it's terrified me ever since, people who have ALS they lose like all their muscular function. Right. And swallowing is one of those, and not being able to swallow terrifies me. Like I'm having to do it again. I had to swallow, like, does that, am I weird or are you that way too? Like I, it's scary. 

[00:06:50] Chris: No, yeah. When, when you think about anything, it, it makes you want to do it. Talking about like Anatomy and Physiology, I remember multiple times in school studying the respiratory system. When you start talking about your lungs and breathing, I could just sit there and hyperventilate. Cause I felt like I needed to breathe all the time. 

[00:07:09] Jeff: Yeah. But just imagine like you, you cannot swallow, so you just, I guess you just sit there and drool. 

[00:07:16] Chris: Drool, yeah. 

[00:07:17] Jeff: Yeah. And what do you do for food? Like I, I guess IV. 

[00:07:22] Chris: I don't know. That would be horrible. 

[00:07:25] Jeff: Yeah, that's terrible. So speech pathologists, uh, I mean, a lot of 'em work in, um, hospital settings, but also schools. Schools is a big place for, for speech pathologists. All right. So that's number 10. 

We get to number nine. Number nine is a lawyer. What do you know about lawyers? 

[00:07:47] Chris: I know a fair amount, I guess. Maybe, maybe not the day to day. I, I guess that's what I would say. Actually, now that you say it, maybe I don't know a lot about it because you know, you, you see representations on TV and movies and that's usually courtroom stuff, but there's so much to lawyers that has nothing to do with the courtroom.

[00:08:10] Jeff: There's such a wide variety of jobs within the profession of being a lawyer. And I'm actually surprised it's on this list because there are so many, including me, who were in that profession and they got out for various reasons. And I think it's one of those, like, you always hear doctor, lawyer, you know, somebody making a bunch of money or whatever. And there are attorneys who, they work 70, 80 hours a week. And they have all sorts of pressure and stress to bill certain hours. And some people thrive in that environment. I can't imagine working in an environment like that. And there are attorneys at the other end who, working a 40 hour work week maybe, and not making a lot of money, but they don't have near as much stress.

And there's a lot of variation there. 

[00:09:05] Chris: Since you said work life balance is part of the criteria on this, that is very surprising that that would make this list because, uh, doctors and lawyers, both, they would not be people that I would expect have the greatest work life balance. 

[00:09:21] Jeff: No, no. Especially a like a surgeon, like aren't you always on call pretty much.

[00:09:27] Chris: I would think so. And I mean, they can, depending on what they do, they've got surgeries that last an eternity.

[00:09:36] Jeff: Yes. Like hours upon hours upon hours. 

[00:09:39] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:09:41] Jeff: All right. Number eight is a statistician. I know there are statisticians, but I don't think I would've identified that as like a career. Somebody being a statistician.

Would you? Like...

[00:09:54] Chris: I mean, I've heard, I I've heard of it as a, a job, career like that. But curious, what would put that in the top 10? I mean, I'm sure, well, I'm sure they make pretty good money. That's a highly technical, scientific, mathematical job, clearly takes not only the skill, but the experience to know what you're doing, how you're doing it, interpreting information. But...

[00:10:22] Jeff: Yeah, so they're quoting Devan Mehrotra, Executive Director of the Biostatistics Department at Merck Research Laboratories. Merck is the pharmaceutical giant. He says going forward, uh, he sees statisticians working closely with collaborators from the biomedical computer, environmental genetics, and social sciences, as well as contributing to quantitative solutions involving human rights and counter-terrorism. It sounds like there's a lot of variation there in that profession as well. 

[00:10:52] Chris: Yeah, for sure. That was a mouthful. 

[00:10:55] Jeff: Oh, I know. Yeah. Um, alright, next up, number seven is a financial manager. Again, this is one I'm kind of vague on. Exactly what do they do? Do you, I mean, manage finances, but for companies? Is that what we're talking about? 

[00:11:13] Chris: Well, I think that's that, uh, could have a lot of variation too, cuz you could be talking about like a corporate financial manager, you know, they are helping manage the financial position of the company. But it could also be like more like a dealing with personal investments.

[00:11:33] Jeff: True, on an individual basis. 

[00:11:34] Chris: Yeah, like a financial manager helping people or companies for that matter, with their investments. 

[00:11:42] Jeff: Looks like there's gonna be a lot of growth here. The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects a 17.3% employment growth for financial managers between 2020 and 2030. That means an estimated 118,200 jobs should open up for finance managers. So lots of opportunity for growth there. 

All right, uh, number six, is a data scientist. Here we go again. I feel like some of this stuff, like, I don't know, I don't wanna say over my head, but like, what exactly do they do? Do you have any idea what a data scientist does? 

[00:12:20] Chris: I would think in that sense, it's more about just collecting the information, which there's plenty of, plenty of area to, to get right or wrong in the data collection. But I was the, when you first said it, I was trying to think of the difference between that and the statistician. But I think that would be it, is the, the data scientist is about collecting the data, making sure that the data collected is accurate, etc., etc.. And then your statistician's gonna be the one to kind of crunch it.

[00:12:56] Jeff: So this says data scientists use technology to glean insights from large amounts of data they collect. It's a field that requires statistics, quantitative reasoning, and computer programming skills. See, it's already over my head. 

[00:13:08] Chris: So there's some overlap there. 

[00:13:10] Jeff: Yeah. A data scientist really is a scientist at heart, says Scott Beliveau, Chief of the Enterprise Advanced Analytics branch within the US Patent and Trademark Office, Office of the Chief Technology Officer. They need to cut down on the phrase of that title. That is way too long. 

[00:13:27] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:13:28] Jeff: But anyway, that is a data scientist, according to this report, the sixth best job in America.

That brings us to number five is a software developer. This one actually doesn't surprise me that it's high on the list. And I think about, I think we were just talking about this, not in a show, but just casually talking, how there are so many programs out there that this company uses, that one uses, that this government office uses, that people in education use, or whatever. Somebody had to develop all of that software that is used on a daily basis.

[00:14:10] Chris: Yes. Highly specific. Yeah. 

[00:14:14] Jeff: Yeah. And I just think about whoever developed this, whatever this is, whatever program it is, I kind of feel like a lot of these people have their own private island somewhere. Like they, you know, just took the money and ran, which is what I would do.

[00:14:29] Chris: Yeah. In some cases. I mean, I think, I'm not surprised that that's on the list. Maybe even surprised that it's not a little higher on the list, because clearly for a long time, and this is not changing at all, we are moving more and more into that automated society, and anything and everything that we can do with software is just getting bigger. Um, more of it. And, you know, I think some of that software is coming from the fact that we can do so much more with a computer every year, you know, as the computer becomes more powerful that opens up things that we can do with software. Like, well, 10 years ago, we couldn't have done that with the software. 

[00:15:16] Jeff: Automation is gonna play a key role in the 10 worst jobs in terms of opportunities for growth and, and all of that. Because, I mean, there are a lot of jobs that are just going away. 

[00:15:29] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:15:30] Jeff: Which makes 'em not very attractive, which is why they're on that list.

OK. Number four, medical and health services manager. Medical and health service managers are the planners, directors, and coordinators who work behind the scenes to keep hospitals, nursing homes, group practices, and other healthcare facilities running efficiently. In short, they are super organized professionals. This sounds like an administrator. Is that what you got out of that? Like, it sounds like a hospital administrator. 

[00:15:58] Chris: I, yeah, I could see that. Or like a nurse, um, what do they call them, the ones like, the nurse over all the nurses. 

[00:16:07] Jeff: Oh, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I don't know what they're called, the queen nurse.

[00:16:11] Chris: Yeah. Right. 

[00:16:13] Jeff: I can't remember.

[00:16:14] Chris: Could be a king nurse, but yes. 

[00:16:16] Jeff: True. Yes. We don't wanna be sexist. King nurse. 

Number three is a physician's assistant. Other than saying that physician assistants assist physicians, do you know what in the world these people do?

[00:16:33] Chris: Not really. I, I mean, I've, I've heard oh, they can do this or do that. And it surprised me because they can do more things than I would've thought. Meaning, you know, there's a line like a nurse, for example, can't write a prescription. I think physician's assistants maybe can. And I think there's a level of nurse that can. It all confuses me. 

[00:16:57] Jeff: So this surprised me, and I don't know that I've ever encountered a physician's assistant. Maybe I have, I didn't know it, maybe I just assumed they were a doctor. But to me physician's assistant sounds like you're running errands for the doctor. You're bringing him or her whatever. But this says they use their medical expertise to examine, diagnose, and treat patients working closely with other healthcare professionals as a team to provide, uh, patient care.

[00:17:25] Chris: Yeah, see, that's where I get confused. Like how, how is that not exactly what a doctor's doing, but clearly there's a difference. 

[00:17:34] Jeff: This says, um, so on all these, this says the education needed for this particular job, this says you need a master's degree. So, a master's degree in what? Like I don't, I, what, what master's degree are you getting that is allowing you to diagnose?

[00:17:51] Chris: I don't know. That's a whole lot less than the time a doctor spends in medical school, but now you're getting to diagnose and treat?

[00:17:59] Jeff: Yeah. OK. This is kind of related to the second one. Very closely related, I guess, is a nurse practitioner. Nurse practitioners are registered nurses with additional education. Extra schooling allows these professionals to take patient histories, perform physical exams, order labs, analyze lab results, prescribe medicines, authorize treatments, and educate patients and families on continued care. How is that any different from the description of a doctor? 

[00:18:28] Chris: I don't know. That's what I'm saying. It just all runs together. I just hope, whoever I'm seeing, knows what they're doing. 

[00:18:36] Jeff: Right. 

[00:18:36] Chris: Title doesn't really matter. Just please do it right. 

[00:18:40] Jeff: Exactly. Don't care what your title is. Can you help me out? And don't screw anything up. 

[00:18:47] Chris: Yep. 

[00:18:47] Jeff: Yeah. Don't give me a fat and hairy, leaky hand. 

[00:18:53] Chris: No. 

[00:18:54] Jeff: If you have no idea what I'm talking about, go back to episode three.

OK. Number one, the best job in the good ol' USA, according to this report from US News and World Report, is an information security analyst. 

[00:19:12] Chris: OK. 

[00:19:13] Jeff: Do you know what in the world they're doing? 

[00:19:15] Chris: I would say they are, well, securing networks really. Like, watching the comings and goings of the information in the network, protecting against hackers, all of that kind of stuff. And, and for that matter, that employees aren't sending stuff out that they shouldn't be. 

[00:19:34] Jeff: Yes. So I'm sure you've heard of this. I find this fascinating, but companies have begun hiring, it's not a recent thing, it's been going on for a while, but they hire hackers. Like people who know how to break into systems. Who, who's gonna know better, how to prevent that stuff, than somebody who's actually done it? And these are not like just people who applied for the job and said, Hey, I can do it. Like, these are, some of 'em have been to prison. They served time for, for doing what they did. But the company's like, OK, well we trust you to help us out. 

[00:20:14] Chris: We want the best of the best. 

[00:20:15] Jeff: Yes. And they are the best of the best. Like they're the ones who have, who have broken into these computer systems. So, hire them. Seems like a pretty reasonable thing to do. 

[00:20:25] Chris: Well when it's, uh, when it's controlled like that, they call it ethical hacking. It's like, yes, we want you to do your best, but we know that you're doing it. And we know that you're not, well, we assume that you're not really doing anything bad.

[00:20:43] Jeff: Right. Yeah, they could really screw the company over too. 

[00:20:47] Chris: Yeah. Well, and I've thought about this. I mean, you know, there, there've gotta be drills in place for other types of professions. You know, I've thought about, like, at the airport, for example. Seems like they would have to have people going through the airport that are knowingly attempting to get stuff through security, you know, so that those people are trained properly, and so on. 

[00:21:15] Jeff: That should be a thing. 

[00:21:17] Chris: It should be if it's not. I would like to do that. 

[00:21:20] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:21:21] Chris: I mean, cuz then it would be like, oh, you get the, you know, the, the fun of the challenge, but nothing's gonna happen to you.

[00:21:27] Jeff: Right. Nothing's gonna happen to you. Can I get this machete through security? 

[00:21:32] Chris: Yes, . 

[00:21:35] Jeff: All right. So there you go. That is the 10 best jobs in America.

So now we move from the best to the worst. 

[00:21:49] Chris: It's all downhill from here. 

[00:21:50] Jeff: It is all downhill from here, and we are gonna go 10 all the way down to one, one being the worst. So this is from USA Today, and this is data from 2018, is when this report was released. I tried to find another list of shitty jobs that was more recent, but there wasn't a good list, uh, that was compiled like this one in USA Today. So this is the one we're going with. And it's not like there's been a rebound in any of these jobs. If anything, they've just all gotten shittier, I guess. 

[00:22:24] Chris: Yeah. I was gonna say they just got bad and stayed right there. 

[00:22:27] Jeff: Right. Like, there's nothing that's happened that is gonna cause them to make a big rebound and not be on this list. Alright.. So, first of all, the methodology here, the USA Today, to determine the worst jobs in America, they went to, uh, 24/7 Wall Street, which is a website. They reviewed a 2018 jobs report from a website called Career Cast. They supplemented that ranking with data from the US Bureau of Labor Statistics, data on median annual wages for May, 2018, and total employment came from the BLS. That's the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Occupational Employment Statistics Program. Uh, and then they looked at projected job growth rates from 2016 to 2026. That is also from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. So these jobs are, uh, they can be stressful. They can really take a toll on you. They're dangerous, and they don't pay a lot. So a, and, there's not a lot of opportunity for growth because some of these jobs are just, maybe not totally going away, but there aren't, there's not a need for as many people to fill these positions as there has been in the past. OK. Are we ready? 

[00:23:46] Chris: Ready 

[00:23:46] Jeff: Our 10 worst jobs.

Number 10 is a painter. Painting can be a physically demanding job, as it requires painters to crouch, reach, and kneel to reach all areas that need to be painted. Some workers, or some painters, have to work on bridges or tall buildings, and they may have to be comfortable with working high up in the air, as you would if you're working in one of those environments, most painters make less than $40,000 a year.

Do you like painting? 

[00:24:17] Chris: Not particularly. 

[00:24:20] Jeff: I hate it. 

[00:24:21] Chris: Yeah. It's, it's, it's not very pleasant. I, I'm OK with the rolling because you can make a lot of progress really quick. But yeah, when you have to go cut in, that's a beating. 

[00:24:32] Jeff: It is. And, uh, I haven't done it a lot. I don't have a lot of experience painting, but when I've done it, I'm sore. Like even using the roller, like you wake up the next morning, your arm hurts. But then having to crouch down, like a catcher in baseball, like you're just in that position for a long time or on your knees, it just sounds terrible. So, no surprise that a painter ends up on this list. 

[00:24:56] Chris: So it surprised me at first, um, because I'm thinking, you know, like painting houses or something. Then when you say that about high up places, more dangerous things. And I know hearing that like the Golden Gate Bridge has to be repainted every three years. And It's because of all of the environmental aspects, the salt water and everything, just wears it away. And then of course, if they didn't do it, if they didn't paint it, then it's just gonna start to deteriorate. But imagine having to paint something like that, 

[00:25:33] Jeff: I don't even know how that works.

[00:25:35] Chris: No. 

[00:25:35] Jeff: How do they get up there? What do they ...wow, that's crazy. No, I do not want that job. 

Number nine is an advertising sales person. This one kind of surprised me, that this is on here. 

[00:25:48] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:25:49] Jeff: The report says while the average job is projected to grow about 7% from 2016 to 2026, the number of advertising sales people in the US labor force is projected to decline during that period. Many workers in this profession sell space in print media outlets like newspapers and magazines, and obviously newspapers and magazines are a lot less prevalent. So, in other words, there's just not as much work for people selling ads. 

[00:26:16] Chris: Yeah. I wonder if, uh, there are people doing that for digital media though. I mean, why wouldn't you have the same people that would sell in print media selling for digital media? 

[00:26:28] Jeff: That's a good question. I don't know. 

[00:26:30] Chris: They think it just sells itself? I mean, maybe that's the thing. Maybe it does a little bit more because you know, you could go on and see, you know, stats of how effective was this versus that and things like that, which wouldn't be as readily known in print media. So you'd need that person. 

[00:26:50] Jeff: Yeah, that's true. 

OK. Number eight is a broadcaster. The Bureau of Labor Statistics projects there will be 3.2% fewer broadcasters in the US labor force in 2026 than there were in 2016. As ad revenue decreases for radio and television broadcasts, stations will likely not be able to afford to employ as many broadcasters as they once did. So that kinda makes sense.

[00:27:20] Chris: That does make sense. 

[00:27:22] Jeff: I saw broadcasters on this list and I was like, well, why? But yeah, if...

[00:27:26] Chris: It does make sense and I mean, you and I have both said, we hardly listen to the radio. If you're gonna listen to music, you go to your app. Which, to be honest, and I mean, we've talked about doing an episode just on changing technology, but it's amazing to me that back in the day, I used to think how ridiculous it seemed to go pay for a music app. Why am I gonna pay for, to stream music, when I can turn on the radio for free?

[00:28:00] Jeff: Yeah. Why go to the park and fly a kite when you could just pop a pill? 

[00:28:05] Chris: Right? But I mean, you know, people used to say the same thing about over the air TV versus cable, and, you know, here we are with how many streaming apps for video? Nevermind, now that we're doing that with our audio too. Um, it's crazy how much that's changed and there you go, you see the effects of it right there. 

[00:28:31] Jeff: And I, this is interesting, I'd like to see some stats on this, but when satellite radio became a thing, like people said, oh, that's a real threat to over the air stuff, terrestrial radio, right? Like, traditional radio. The satellite radio is a big threat to that. But that's not what ended up, I don't think, being its main competitor. It was all the streaming apps that have really helped to do traditional radio in. 

[00:29:01] Chris: Yeah, that's true. And I don't know, I don't know what the difference was. I mean, because the end result seems the same. But yeah, the, the streaming apps have really exploded compared to just the, the satellite. 

[00:29:17] Jeff: Right. 

Speaking of radio, number seven is a disc jockey, better known as a DJ. Though it may seem like a great job, DJs are projected to face one of the most challenging working environments in the future. With the rise of online music streaming and podcasts, listeners have other music options than listening to radio stations. This is partially to blame for the projected 11.6 decline in DJ jobs. 

[00:29:48] Chris: Wow. 

[00:29:49] Jeff: Those DJs who have a job are typically not well compensated, as most make less than $34,000 a year. 

[00:29:57] Chris: Seriously. 

[00:29:59] Jeff: Yeah. That is super low. 

[00:30:01] Chris: That is super low. And that's a lot of skill. They've gotta have technical skills. They've gotta have soft skills in terms of...

[00:30:10] Jeff: Yeah.

[00:30:11] Chris: Actually. I mean, they're, they're having a conversation with themselves. Uh, I mean, they're, you know, they're trying to bring in an audience. Uh, that's amazing. 

[00:30:23] Jeff: And, and this says with the rise of online music streaming and podcasts, listeners have other options. Well, there are entire radio stations now where there are no DJs. They're just playing music. It's automated over the air. Like the Jack FM radio stations. There are no DJs, I don't think, on, on that whole setup. 

[00:30:47] Chris: Really 

[00:30:48] Jeff: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't, I don't think there are. 

[00:30:51] Chris: Just thinking along those lines. I didn't know if that existed, but I was just thinking along those lines, as why couldn't radio stations have, you know, somebody that sits there and, you know, curates the, the list of music that they're gonna play. They throw the ads in there and let it go. Like...

[00:31:14] Jeff: Yeah. And I gotta say, I, this might be a nostalgia thing and, oh, you're old or whatever. But I do miss back in the day, going to school and you got used to hearing the same DJs and you like got to know them and... 

[00:31:32] Chris: Yes.

[00:31:32] Jeff: I mean, know them, you, you knew some things about 'em and how they talked and you just got attached to those individuals, and they were local. So that made a difference. And I think now, at least on my, from what I've heard, and, and listening to my kids' music in the car, um, and listening to the DJs there it, a lot of it's national, it's not local, and it just doesn't feel the same. Do you get the same vibe? 

[00:32:03] Chris: Yes, absolutely. Now, you know, 10 and 15 years ago when I was commuting to the office all the time, I was the same. You know, I would turn on the radio, listen to the same DJs. You get their morning show and there's always different types of content for the morning show than what you might hear throughout the rest of the day, because they know, well, we've got a captive audience in their cars right now, same as on the ride home.

But I mean, I don't even commute like that anymore, mostly working from home. And when I, when I go places they're shorter trips. And I think that has, for me, changed my behavior a lot towards streaming as well. It's like, well, I'm not tuning into a show or a person. I just want to hear the music, and it may not be at the right time for them being there anyway.

But yeah, that is something to miss. I, I think about that every once in a while, is like growing up and that was just a part of the morning. 

[00:33:06] Jeff: Yeah. This is what you did. So our takeaway from this clearly is do not listen to your local DJ and tune into this podcast. 

[00:33:14] Chris: There you go. And maybe look for a job outside of radio.

[00:33:20] Jeff: Right. 

[00:33:21] Chris: This is a PSA right here. 

[00:33:23] Jeff: Yes, it's what we do. 

Number six is a corrections officer. At the end of 2016, the most recent year with available data, there were just over 1.5 million prisoners in the US, which is one of the highest in the world by the way, down from the peak of 1.6 in 2009. This decline in the prison population, as well as budgetary issues, will likely contribute to the expected 7.7% drop in the number of working corrections officers in the United States. Largely as a result of violent inmates, corrections officers have among the highest injury and illness rates of all jobs. Does that surprise you?

[00:34:07] Chris: Probably surprises me to say that they're among the highest, but it doesn't surprise me to hear that it's dangerous overall. That would have to be a horribly rough environment. 

[00:34:17] Jeff: Yeah. And illnesses. I mean...

[00:34:20] Chris: Yeah. It's a cesspool.

[00:34:21] Jeff: So many prisons we have have shitty conditions. Yes, exactly. And look at COVID. I mean, it spread like wildfire all throughout prisons in this country. And so many prisoners don't get the proper treatment that they need, in terms of healthcare. And something that they get just festers and...

[00:34:41] Chris: Yes. 

[00:34:42] Jeff: And, and somebody ends up catching it and then it's no surprise the guards are gonna catch it.

[00:34:47] Chris: Yeah. It's not like they were able to isolate. 

[00:34:49] Jeff: You know, what I didn't know, until probably five or six years ago, most Texas prisons do not even have air conditioning. Did you know this? 

[00:35:00] Chris: No. How does that work? 

[00:35:02] Jeff: I don't know. There's been a move to change it. Like there have been lawsuits in the state, in federal court. They've sued in federal court, claiming that it violates their eighth amendment rights against cruel and unusual punishment. The Texas legislature, last session or the session before, actually passed a law to, to guarantee air conditioning in Texas prisons by 2029. But they have no way to fund it. So they passed the law, but as of right now, there's no method for, to actually fund it. So I'll be surprised if it actually happens, unless the federal court makes them do so. But I was, I was shocked at that. I mean, hello, it's Texas, like Jesus Christ. 

[00:35:45] Chris: Yeah. How are they, not just dropping left and right?

[00:35:47] Jeff: Well, the reason I thought of that is this is one of those rare issues where prison guards and prisoners are on the same side. Like, they're all saying we're hot as hell.

[00:36:02] Chris: I guess so. 

[00:36:02] Jeff: Please give us some AC. 

[00:36:05] Chris: Yeah. And for anybody that doesn't know, there's probably not about, probably not much of any place in Texas that's not around a hundred degrees in the summer. And summer here is about five or six months. 

[00:36:24] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:36:26] Chris: And a hundred degrees can be on the low side, depending on where you are.

[00:36:30] Jeff: And that's a hundred degrees in the shade outside. Now think about being inside with concrete and steel. 

[00:36:38] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:36:38] Jeff: And probably little to no, like, there's no open window, of course. Not gonna do that in a prison. So you're just baking in an oven. 

[00:36:47] Chris: I cannot imagine. 

[00:36:48] Jeff: Good reason not to go to prison I guess. One of many.

All right. Number five, enlisted military personnel, so military members. Serving in the US military differs from most jobs on this list, as military personnel choose to serve their country. It may therefore seem unfair to list them among the worst jobs, yet they do face very high stress, and one of the most difficult working environments possible, especially those serving in combat zones.

Duh, right? 

[00:37:18] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:37:19] Jeff: If you could be killed or irreparably harmed, mentally and/or physically from your job, I think it's probably gonna end up on this list. And for soldiers, it does. Uh, many military members in the US often earn less than $30,000 a year. 

[00:37:38] Chris: Wow. And then they come home and we don't give them anything.

[00:37:43] Jeff: No. 

[00:37:44] Chris: So many of them end up homeless. 

[00:37:47] Jeff: Support Our Troops goes only so far. 

[00:37:49] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:37:50] Jeff: Yes.

[00:37:51] Chris: Right. 

[00:37:51] Jeff: Yeah. What percentage of homeless people are, are, uh, former military? It's astounding, and the suicide rate among them is astounding as well. 

[00:38:01] Chris: And then mental illness. 

[00:38:04] Jeff: Yep. 

[00:38:05] Chris: I mean the, the kind of, uh, things that they endure in that enlistment.

[00:38:12] Jeff: Yeah. 

Number four, a retail sales person. As a customer facing job, retail sales workers have a relatively challenging work environment. The job is also one of the lowest paid jobs in the country with a median annual income of $24,200. The job market for the position is projected to grow at less than 2% by 2026. The continued rise of online shopping and the struggles of brick and mortar retailers may have an even greater impact than anticipated on the number of retail workers.

Does it surprise you that retail is on this list? 

[00:38:49] Chris: No, I can't say that it does. So much has gone online and I, I really. I wondered for a while, you know, where all of that was going. You see malls closing all over the place. Nevermind just individual stores in different places. And I mean, what's the average person gonna do when they want something quickly and like, oh, look on Amazon, or whatever.

[00:39:14] Jeff: Right. Beats going out, having to go to the mall. 

[00:39:19] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:39:19] Jeff: Isn't it crazy? The mall was the place to be when you were a teenager, and now I avoid malls like the plague. Like, if I don't have to go to mall, I'm not going to mall. 

[00:39:29] Chris: Right. Oh, it used to be so exciting. 

[00:39:33] Jeff: Yeah, definitely. I wonder if it's that way today? Is the mall an exciting place to be for kids?

[00:39:40] Chris: I don't know. I've, I'm trying to think. There's probably only one or two malls here in Dallas that I can think of off the top of my head that really draw a crowd. 

[00:39:53] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:39:54] Chris: Well, three, three. But the point is there are a lot more malls than that. And when I've gone to some of those others, it's just sparse. 

[00:40:03] Jeff: And now they're, they're tearing down malls. I mean, not just Dallas, but everywhere. Like malls are being torn down. They've been abandoned, like they're whole websites and documentaries about abandoned malls all across the country. 

[00:40:16] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:40:16] Jeff: That's just crazy. Have you ever worked in retail? 

[00:40:20] Chris: I worked in a tennis shop when I was in high school. Um, I guess...

[00:40:27] Jeff: OK. Well I guess that counts, I guess. 

[00:40:29] Chris: Yeah, I guess that was really, I mean, yeah, we had people coming through to go play on the courts, but there was a shop, you know, where they would come in and buy merchandise and stuff. That was the only time though. 

[00:40:41] Jeff: I worked in retail. That was my first job. And, and I tell you what, and you can attest to this, but if you really wanna find out about people, then work in a job where you are dealing with the public every day and you will learn a whole lot. Like it's eye opening.

[00:40:59] Chris: Absolutely. And not in a good way. 

[00:41:03] Jeff: Right. Yeah. You're gonna get the best. You're gonna see the best of people, like super nice, helpful, whatever. And you're gonna get the worst. 

[00:41:12] Chris: I will say this about that. I always, and then this is when I was that age, you know, 17, 18, whatever. I always felt like I was nice to people when I went into, I'm gonna say retail places, that that could be a food place, a store, whatever it happened to be. I, I was not that rude person. But in my mind, my own, uh, feelings, I might get impatient, whatever. I just wasn't the person to let it out at them. But after working in that environment, it made me feel different. Not just to act different, but to feel different. It's like...

[00:41:57] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:41:57] Chris: You have empathy for that person. Not only, you know, are they personally having a bad day? Did the person who was just in here before me chew them out? Are things going badly, you know, in a different area, and I'm only seeing the result of it and it has nothing to do with that person? It just gives you a whole different perspective on all of that. I think anyone should have to work in a customer facing position at some point. 

[00:42:31] Jeff: Yes. I think if they did people would be a lot nicer to individuals in those positions. 

[00:42:37] Chris: Yes. 

[00:42:39] Jeff: All right. Number three is a newspaper reporter. Probably no surprise that this one's on the list. Right? 

[00:42:45] Chris: Yeah, that's kind of going away. 

[00:42:46] Jeff: I mean, yeah, newspapers are just on the decline and have been for the past couple of decades, I guess. Uh, the number of newspaper reporters is projected to drop by 10% by 2026, as newspapers lose readers and ad revenue. Reporters often face intense scrutiny from readers, added to the stress of print deadlines. In an increasingly polarized political environment, reporters are often inundated with negative feedback from readers and even some death threats. Because people can't handle their shit, so they're gonna threaten a newspaper reporter with death. 

[00:43:21] Chris: Right. 

[00:43:21] Jeff: Jesus. So I saw just today as we're recording this, uh, the Washington Post lost money, was it last year? The last quarter? Or, I don't know, but it was surprising a major publication like that lost money. And it's just more of the same with what newspapers have been dealing with. 

All right. Number two is a logger. 

[00:43:45] Chris: Now that's surprising. Well, I thought we were cutting down trees as fast as we could. 

[00:43:51] Jeff: Yeah, you'd think there's a lot of work, right? So logging ranks as the second worst job in America in large part because it also ranks as the second most dangerous job. There were 55 fatal injuries and 350 non-fatal injuries among loggers in 2017. Good God. Since it is such a dangerous job, many companies are looking into automating the process of felling trees by hand. This may explain the projected 12.6% decrease in logging jobs by 2026. Even when done safely, logging is very physically strenuous and does not pay especially high wages.

So, I guess that makes sense. When you look at, at, uh, you know, the automation and trying to figure out a safer way to do it, which is to eliminate the actual people themselves, I guess, from having to, to mess with it. 

[00:44:43] Chris: That's true. I, I guess I didn't think about, I didn't think about having to cut down the trees individually. I would've thought it'd been more automated. Like, they would still be called loggers, but doing it in automated, I'll say automated ways, bulk ways, whatever. And then think about some individuals walking up to a tree with a saw or an ax.

[00:45:08] Jeff: With a saw, good luck! Yeah. So we had a couple of trees cut down, I guess a couple of years ago, three years ago. And it wasn't our choice. Well, it was our choice, but these were a threat. Like these are gonna fall on the house. With all the storms we have in Texas, like this is a danger. So we had 'em cut down and I swear, the way they do it is crazy the way they climb up there, the, the supposed safety equipment that they have. But I was pretty sure I was gonna witness somebody's death. Like this guy's gonna fall. Uh, but they did it, like they know exactly what they're doing. 

[00:45:48] Chris: Seems like there's something wrong when you're cutting down the very thing that you're on . 

[00:45:53] Jeff: Yes, exactly. Very good point.

All right. Number one. The worst job in America, according to USA Today, do you wanna take a guess at what this might be?

You're probably not gonna get it, but it'll probably make sense once you hear what it is. But the worst job in America is a taxi driver. 

[00:46:18] Chris: Oh, OK. 

[00:46:21] Jeff: Combination of low pay, slow employment growth, high stress, and an undesirable work environment. 

[00:46:28] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:46:28] Jeff: Has made taxi driving the worst job in America. Taxi drivers work all hours of the day, sometimes in inclement weather, dealing with traffic jams and potentially unruly or rude passengers. Most taxi drivers earn less than $26,000 per year as compared to the median American annual wage of $37,690. Though the number of taxi drivers is projected to increase by about 5% by 2026, this growth may be curtailed by the rise of ride hailing companies like Uber and Lyft. That's why it wasn't surprising for me just with Uber and Lyft coming along. But can you imagine being a taxi driver and having the deal with all the shit? 

[00:47:12] Chris: No. Well, and you just read a list of all of the shit. Now add onto that the possibility of being mugged/robbed, stabbed, or shot . 

[00:47:24] Jeff: Yep. Right! Yeah. Talk about high stress. Um, is this person gonna kill me when you pick 'em up and then are they gonna tip me? Are they just an asshole? What, you know? 

So there you go. That is the 10 worst jobs in America. Of these 10, and I can go through the list again, if you want me to, but of these 10, which one would you prefer to work in? If you had to choose among these, which one would it be? 

[00:47:56] Chris: I think my choice, and this is, sounds like a cop out, but it would have to be the number 10, as a painter. Because honestly, some of those and, and part of this is personal preference, they just don't sound appealing to me for my interest. I mean, honestly, no, I don't have an interest in being a painter as a profession either. But you know, let's say that I could be a house painter. And I mean, like even painting the insides of houses. I mean...

[00:48:29] Jeff: God that just sounds terrible. 

[00:48:31] Chris: It does, because I don't enjoy it. Now, there are people who actually enjoy that. 

[00:48:37] Jeff: They love it, yeah. 

[00:48:38] Chris: That's not me, but I mean, if I had to pick one, I'd probably pick that. It's, uh, especially in that kind of environment, I would say it's, uh, extremely low danger. I mean, I'm not talking about painting bridges and stuff. So, yeah, I guess I could, I guess I could handle that. 

[00:48:57] Jeff: I think mine would be DJ. There's certain aspects of being a DJ that I think would be pretty cool. 

[00:49:05] Chris: I think it would be. A reason I didn't pick something like that is because the thing about the painter is we're always going to, I, I think we're always going to need painters. And we're already talking about DJs going away. I don't want to feel like, oh, today could be the day. 

[00:49:26] Jeff: You were thinking more in depth about it than I was. I was just thinking like, would it be cool to have that job and...

[00:49:32] Chris: Just the day to day? No, that would be cool. I, yeah, I could see that. 

[00:49:35] Jeff: On the other hand, I don't know all what DJs do. I'm just thinking about, I'm thinking about Johnny Fever in WKRP. Dating myself there, but you're just coming in hungover, maybe high, and spinning records. And that's your job. That just seems kind of cool to me, but there are probably aspects of it that just suck. 

[00:50:01] Chris: I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking like, um, besides what I could put up with is, I guess, like what's a future like here? And I, I would be afraid with some of those since they're on the decline too is, well, that could be me. 

[00:50:20] Jeff: Yeah, you could get the ax. Alright, I'll give you mine after this, but in your storied career, as a worthwhile member of the American labor force, what is the worst job you've had?

[00:50:36] Chris: I would probably say, uh, there was a, and it was a short time, a short time in college when I worked as a telemarketer. And I say that, it wasn't like a, a telemarketing, uh, it wasn't a call center. I was actually, um, by myself working for this carpet cleaning company, my job was cold calling a bunch of people and setting up for them to be able to go out and do like test cleanings for them to hire them out. 

[00:51:09] Jeff: Did you ever have anybody yell at you, curse you out, any of that kind of stuff? 

[00:51:16] Chris: No, surprisingly, no. Now I was calling businesses. I wasn't calling individual, like, you know, residents. So I'm sure that helped. This carpet cleaning company really wanted to get in with a lot of apartment complexes because as, you know, people were moving in, moving out, and of course, even while the tenants were there sometimes, being able to clean the carpets, they, you know, if they could get an in with the apartment complex, they could have, you know, hundreds, tens, and hundreds of places to clean, over time, if they, you know, kept them as a good client. So anyway, I was calling businesses and I, I'm sure that helped a lot. 

[00:52:01] Jeff: Yeah, I would think so. You know what puzzles me is that there are still door to door sales people. Like how is that a thing in 2022? 

[00:52:11] Chris: I don't know, cuz who's opening their door?

[00:52:15] Jeff: Well, that's a good point.

[00:52:18] Chris: Yeah. I mean you, you look out the people. Nope. Don't know you. 

[00:52:22] Jeff: Yeah. Don't know you. Get off my lawn. 

[00:52:24] Chris: Right. 

[00:52:26] Jeff: I think my worst job would have to be, and it was my worst for a few different factors I guess. But I had just graduated from college, and I majored in Political Science. And for those of you out there who are considering majoring in Political Science, don't think that people are just gonna come beating down your door, waiting to hire you. Um, so I had to figure out what the hell am I gonna do? I need some money. So I got a job at Sam's Club, but it gets worse. It was the graveyard shift. So I had to show up at like, I don't remember what it was, 10 or 11 o'clock at night and work till six or seven in the morning. 

[00:53:10] Chris: So you were just stocking.

[00:53:12] Jeff: Yeah, I was. I was stocking and that was bad enough cuz it throws your, humans are not meant to be up during those hours, at least on a regular basis. And so there, there was just that aspect of it. And then they stuck me in the freezer. So I had to dress like I was going to work in Antarctica or something and I'm stocking stuff. You know, it's freezing cold.

And I was like, I, I, I hate this. There was nothing about that job that, that I liked. And I know it's all relative. I know there are people listening to this right now thinking, oh, I had a job that was way worse, but that was my worst. And we could probably revisit then, because that's not the only shitty job I had.

And I'm sure your telemarketing was not the only shitty job that you've done either. 

[00:54:04] Chris: No. 

[00:54:05] Jeff: Yeah. So possibly we will revisit that. 

Alright, so there you go. That is the 10 best jobs and 10 worst jobs in America.

If you like that kind of stuff, you are our kind of people. Please get on whatever app you're listening to this on. You can rate us. If you are so inclined, give us five stars. We would also really like it if you could give us a review. Say anything you want, doesn't matter. Uh, we just love hearing from our listeners.

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[00:55:15] Chris: And I am @chrisbradfordtx. 

[00:55:18] Jeff: And speaking of rating us and giving us a review on whatever platform you're listening to this on, go ahead and subscribe, follow us. That way you'll get new episodes of Subpar Talks delivered to you automatically. You don't have to do anything. And then finally, share this with your friends on social media, your coworkers, colleagues, people on the street, whoever. Just get the word out about Subpar Talks.

The more listeners we have, the easier it is for us to get this content to you each and every week. And Chris, you wanna say anything final about best jobs, worst jobs? 

[00:55:56] Chris: Yeah. If this jobs list, uh, prompted any feelings, good or bad, take action. Get out there and, and do what you wanna do. 

[00:56:08] Jeff: That's right. I tell my students all the time when I'm an attorney, and I've gotten this so many times through the years, couldn't you make a lot more money being an attorney? And I'm like, yeah. Teaching college courses is not as lucrative as perhaps it would be, um, you know, if I were practicing law. I'd make a lot more money. But I tell them, life is too short to roll outta bed every day and do something you don't like. So, find something you don't mind getting outta bed every day to do so...

[00:56:37] Chris: Absolutely. I could be, I could be really happy with a lot more money, for a short time. And, and that will wear off quick. 

[00:56:47] Jeff: Yep. Especially if you're in one of those jobs that are going away, like a DJ. 

Alright. . That is another episode of Subpar Talks and we will be back next week.