E54 - Chris and Jeff Come Out (Politically)

Jeff: 0:00

This week, hoisting an airline passenger, a dog man, and we come out politically. Welcome to Subpar Talks. Before we get into this week's episode, my apologies, I recorded with the wrong microphone, and so the audio quality on my end is subpar. So again, I'm sorry, it won't happen again. Thanks for sticking with us. Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff.

Chris: 0:48

And I'm Chris.

Jeff: 0:50

Thank you again for joining us, and before we get started, we have our disclaimer, listener discretion is advised. We'll curse from time to time, maybe a lot, and depending on the episode, we'll touch on some mature subject matter and we inject our humor into a lot of this stuff. So if that doesn't set well with you, then maybe this is not for you. But for everybody else, get ready because here we go with this week's topics. Okay, so I came across something the other day that I've never seen in my life. I feel like I'm, I'm a little questioning of whether we should talk about it, but we're gonna talk about it by all means. Bring it up then.

Chris: 1:35

Well, yeah. I. Conversations about everything. Here we go. So I'm just gonna read the headline and then we'll talk about details.'cause the headline just obviously got my attention. All right. Says A British Airways passenger was stuck in his seat for three hours after landing and had to be taken out of first class with a hoist, A hoist, A hoist.

Jeff: 2:03

A hoist. Oh my God. So clearly

Chris: 2:07

I had questions,

Jeff: 2:08

right? Yeah, no kidding.

Chris: 2:10

Okay. What's going on? How are you stuck in your seat that bad? What exactly are we talking about with a hoist? All of this kind of stuff. So, The very first thing in the article says A plus-sized passenger. Okay, well that tells me something right

Jeff: 2:29

there, obviously. Yeah.

Chris: 2:30

Obviously it says he was seated in one A, which is typically reserved for British Airways Executive Club gold card holders. Apparently this is a highly coveted seat, so not anymore. Well, yeah, I mean, so they had to get these emergency services people to get the, the person out him. It was a he to get him out of his seat. Okay, now here we go with some details. So first of all, this says that the seat is two feet wide. Feet. So the

Jeff: 3:12

seat is, is two

Chris: 3:14

two feet the seat Okay. Is two feet wide. And we're talking first class British Airways international flight. So these are the little, um, a lack of a better term, like a pod thing that you're sitting in. Right? Okay. You've got a seat, you've got a screen in front of you, you've got a magazine rack, a tray. All of that's kind of built into this whole thing. Okay. So this says they landed at five 10 in the morning. That might have been a good thing'cause maybe it wasn't quite as busy. Mm-hmm. But still it took three hours to get them out. So they called emergency services and the note from an engineering team said, a volumetric passenger that cracked me up right there,

Jeff: 4:05

volumetric.

Chris: 4:06

Volumetric that is like full of volume.

Jeff: 4:12

Voluminous. Yeah. Voluminous. Yeah.

Chris: 4:16

A volumetric passenger is stuck in seat one A. The plan is to remove the sweet door and use a hoist to eject him from the seat. Eject. Yes. I'm, I'm picturing like we're gonna get something underneath him and just pop him out. Just pop him

Jeff: 4:36

out. That's what I was thinking. Yes. Oh my God. Okay. Three hours. At what point does the plane land and people get up and he, when can't but happened in. Between the time that he was trying to get out, I'm sure. Did he ask for assistance and then they called in the engineering team? Like what?

Chris: 5:06

Yeah, like when were they trying? I know. When do you give up and go, we're gonna need some help. Like we don't have, we don't have what we need here.

Jeff: 5:19

Did they try to pry him out? Did they get a crowbar? Oh, like a crowbar, a shovel.

Chris: 5:27

I don't like something.

Jeff: 5:29

My God. And so I don't, I don't, you're more familiar with playing stuff than I am and God knows I haven't flown first class I about these PO things. But can you try to like, can you pull. Pull him to the side or something.

Chris: 5:51

So they have like an entrance to it that I, I mean, they said stuck in his seat. So I'm thinking we're not just talking in the little cubicle things he's in, but the actual seat. I was gonna say it's a little smaller, little more narrow area to walk out of. Probably about like coming in and out of, of an air of an airplane row, you know,

Jeff: 6:18

with like, okay. Yeah,

Chris: 6:19

yeah. How much room? Well, maybe a little more room than that, but let's say a little more maybe like the exit row. How about that? The exit row, you know, has a little bit more room. Yeah. So about the amount of space to get in and out of that row. But then the seat itself is larger. I mean, all first class seats are bigger. These are like first class international flight. They're big. My God. They got themselves in there. I mean, it's like how much did you eat on the plane? Or you just kind of cemented into the seat?

Jeff: 7:01

I think. Yeah. Over You said it's international, so over the course of several hours, you just kind of sunk down into it and stuck to it. Yes. My god's the two crazy became one's. Yeah, they do. Yeah.

Chris: 7:17

I don't know what to say. That was

Jeff: 7:19

uh, I wanna know more about the hoist. Yeah,

Chris: 7:23

I'd like to know about that too. There was an article just last month I came across this. I didn't feel like it was particularly newsworthy because we've heard about this for a long time. Is, you know, plus size passengers having issues with the size of airplane seats in general. Yeah. Well, and the space on a plane in general, because they cram more seats onto the plane. Mm-hmm. Which reduces the amount of space to get in and out of the rows. But I do think the seats themselves, you know, seems smaller as well. Yeah. They're, and yeah, I mean, it, it's, it's not going in a good direction for them, but, but to hear that about a first class seat like that, damn, that's, that's bad news.

Jeff: 8:13

Uh, what are the chances this passenger as an American?

Chris: 8:17

Oh, I would say it's a pretty big chance. Let's see, it was a flight from Lagos to Heathrow. Mm.

Jeff: 8:29

Okay. That doesn't

Chris: 8:30

really tell us their nationality, uh, but not a lot. Wow. Side note here. Where is

Jeff: 8:37

Lagos? Uh, I think that's, uh, Laos. Nigeria. Okay. The Oceans, Laos, I think it's, uh, Nigeria. I, if it's capital. Okay. I could be wrong. I'm pretty bad when it comes to African geography and all that stuff. Yeah, I don't

Chris: 9:03

know much about it. I know where South Africa is. All right. So this was a noteworthy week for some outrageous stories, and I gotta say this one, this one just supersedes the last one. Oh, wow. Okay. I, I had to do a double take on this one and like, okay, wait a minute. Am I reading this right? Well, I did so. I'll just read you the first line out of this and, and here come the questions. All right. A Japanese native has transformed himself into a canine after forking out more than$14,000 for a custom made cley costume. What? Yeah, exactly. That's what I said. Like what? Okay. The dude says in the article, this guy, ever since he was a kid, wanted to be a dog, wanted to act like a dog. Okay. Identify, I mean, here we go. It's like identifying as a dog. Okay. He wanted this so bad that he got this company to create a custom made colleague costume for him. Costs$14,000. He has dressed himself in this Colly costume, and I gotta say, it's pretty good. Looks good. It's, yeah, it's pretty good costume. I mean, you look at the face and go, it might be a little bit off, but it just looks like a fat colly. But the thing is, he is got a friend and, and this, this is where he really looks massive, but he is got a friend walking him as the dog,

Jeff: 11:03

oh my God. Through the park,

Chris: 11:04

giving him snacks, playing, fetch, shaking like a dog with his paw. That's the freakiest thing I've ever seen in my life.

Jeff: 11:16

He, he needs to be in some type of therapy. I mean, that's objectively not normal. No, no.

Chris: 11:25

I just, I I have, there are more questions than any of this could answer, but it does say right here at the, at the end of the article, the guy says, I rarely tell my friends because I'm afraid they will think I'm weird. My friends and family seemed very surprised to learn I became an animal.

Jeff: 11:54

Well, he's goddamn right on the friends one. Yep. They're gonna think you're weird. You're weird because you know why, because you fucking are weird. Yes. I mean, he needs some help. That's, that's not normal. Can't be healthy. And then one of the friend who's walking him around is, is the collie on a leash?

Chris: 12:16

Uh, not in this picture, but it, it's a, it's a female with him. What? Yeah. What the fuck is she

Jeff: 12:24

thinking? Well, that's what I'm wondering. Like what, what is, what's her deal? Jesus Christ. At what,

Chris: 12:33

at what point do you have a friend and they tell you something, you know? Yeah. This is, this is how I feel. This is what I want to be, this is what I want to do. And you go, okay, like this is all right.

Jeff: 12:52

You gotta draw the line somewhere. And the line is really far away from, Hey, walk me like a dog in the park and shake my hand and feed me and whatever else.

Chris: 13:06

Uhuh, I think you know that you got people that identify as, as different genders. We're still in the same species though. Right. I mean, when you're crossing species, you've crossed a big, big line right there.

Jeff: 13:22

And$14,000. My

Chris: 13:24

god. Yeah. It says it's 2 million yen. That sounds even worse. You know, we supposedly have like 98% d n A in common with orangutans. Yeah. But still. Right. I've never heard anybody say they want to be that.

Jeff: 13:50

This next topic, I thought it would be something maybe that the listeners could participate in. Uh, don't do this if you're driving or anything. Just wait and you can do it later. Or go ahead and pause and get ready and you can do this. But it is a political quiz. I'm gonna take it, Chris, you're gonna take it. We're answers, and then we're gonna see the results that we get. Uh, I'll post the link in the episode notes, so somebody directly to, if you just wanna Google peer research, political ology, quiz, uh, it should be the first thing that pops up, pop up and just click on that. And really quickly, uh, I give this to my students as part of an assignment, and it, it's meant to nail down what your political, not just ideology is, but, and not just political party. It goes a little bit deeper than that, and they're one of, I think, nine categories that it's gonna put you in nine. Really? Yeah, I think so. Pure research gave this. And then they decided to make it available to the general public. So that's this website here. So we'll see how we end up. And this should provide for some good conversation, debate, whatever. Are you ready?

Chris: 15:21

I'm ready, yes. Okay. It's a question.

Jeff: 15:27

All right. I'm clicking start quiz. The first question that pops up. If you had to choose, would you rather have a smaller government providing fewer services or a bigger government providing more services? Are you leaning in particular way?

Chris: 15:46

I'm stuck already because I obviously know what the question is asking and why it's asking what it's asking. But the thing is, A bigger government providing more services is great. If they're efficiently and if they're efficiently providing them. Providing them well. Mm-hmm. And I think about some other countries, you know, European countries come to mind, obviously, uh, that provides services that we don't have clearly. And if they're providing them, well providing, then I'd be like, hell yeah, I'd like that. Mm-hmm. I mean, if I could pay a little bit more in taxes, but get that from the government and not be paying it privately. Therefore, the idea being to save myself money. Well, that sounds great. Yeah. I have some skepticism around certain things that the government could provide as to are they providing it in the best way possible? And that's where I go, huh. Well, maybe smaller's better and I'll just do it myself.

Jeff: 16:54

So I tell my students, and I think the instructions in this quiz, say, pick the one that comes closer to your views, because I'm pretty sure I'm like you on all of these. I could hem and haw and say, well, if this, so, but what about that? Or whatever. So kind of go with your gut instincts. I, but with the government services, I, I lean more toward what you first said. Like, I look at a lot of European countries and we're richer than at least some of those countries. And so I'm inclined to say that, yeah, we could provide more government services and yeah, I mean the hope is they would be efficient and worthwhile and all that, but that's the one I'm picking a bigger government, providing more services.

Chris: 17:47

Maybe I should look at it as, as a, an assumption. That things are gonna work. Yeah. Okay.'cause some people, you know, some people are against a big government period. Nevermind if it works. We just don't want the government involved in these things. Right. Is kind of the viewpoint. Yeah. So I uh, probably overthinking it there. That would stand to reason with me.

Jeff: 18:14

Uh, all. So I picked that one. And it's a follow question. When you say government providing more services, do you think it would be better to modestly expand on current government services or greatly expand on government services? I'm going greatly. I think there's a lot of areas where we could stand to, although you could probably talk me out of it, but I think we could stand to expand. I'm thinking of healthcare. That would be a big expansion. Healthcare of government services. Yeah.

Chris: 18:48

That's true. It's a big expand. Oh, it's one area though that's, see there again, I'm thinking, are we talking about, you know, a ton of different areas or, Hey, it's a big undertaking. It's definitely a big undertaking. Right. So I was picking modestly. This could be interesting too. I don't think we should pick opposite every time, but that'd be kind of interesting to see how this pulls us out in the end. Yeah.

Jeff: 19:12

I figure we're gonna have different answers that'll make it more interesting. Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Next question two. Which of the following statements comes closest to your view? America's openness to people from all over the world is essential to who we're as a nation. Or if America is too open to people from all over the world, we risk losing our identity as a nation. I'm picking the first one.

Chris: 19:38

Gotta pick the first one. Our identity as a nation is the diversity,

Jeff: 19:43

right? Exactly. Yep. I don't think. How do you think a Trump supporter would answer that? Think

Chris: 19:53

we know that one.

Jeff: 19:55

Uh, number three, in general, would you say experts who study a subject for many years are usually better at making good policy decisions about that subject than other people? Usually worse at making good policy decisions about that subject than other people, or neither better nor worse at making good policy decisions about that subject than other people. I don't think people listen to experts enough, and I can point to many, many examples of our government leaders just listening to what the experts say, and then they do the complete fucking opposite thing. Exactly. And yeah, they don't pay attention at all. So yeah, I'm choosing better on that one.

Chris: 20:35

That's, that's what I would say. Also, I mean there's, there are plenty of examples where they're not doing that in the face of other data, but. I think as a whole, people are gonna be better at making the decisions if they're better educated.

Jeff: 20:51

Climate change is a good example. Do you remember when that senator from Oklahoma, James Enh, I think was his name, I don't know if he's still a senator or not, but he actually brought a snowball onto the Senate floor to, to explain why climate change is not a real thing.

Chris: 21:10

Yes. Though. So clearly we're not warming. Right.

Jeff: 21:16

You talk about stupid. Yep. Okay. Number four, thinking about increased trade of goods and services between the uss would than it. Or lost more than it has gained because increased trade has cost jobs, manufacturing and other industries, and lowered wages for some US workers. God, I'm conflicted on this. Damn. Yeah. Okay. On one hand, globalization, because that's what this refers to. Globalization has hurt the everyday average American worker in terms of certain industries. And manufacturing is a good example because once you open up free trade, other countries, then those businesses, corporations are gonna go seek the cheapest labor they can get. And the cheapest labor they can get is in places like China, Indonesia, Thailand, Pakistan, places like that. Mm-hmm. And then you, what you've got is American workers here. Are earning way more money than those workers overseas. But not only that, they, they get social security, they get Medicare, they get unemployment insurance, and you can pay those workers overseas a fraction of that. You're not paying any, any social security or anything like that. So it's way cheaper for the corporations to do so. So what happens is those American workers lose their job and, you know, businesses close up, they relocate somewhere else. On the other hand, it has made it better for consumers overall because we can get a cheaper

Chris: 23:19

price on stuff. Yes. And my question here, I'm sure there's gotta be data to support or not support this. My feeling is that if we had kept it all here, Yes, you would've preserved the jobs, but at a higher cost. So yeah, those workers are making more, but they're also having to pay more to buy those goods and services. So are they better off? Are they equally off if you know, if they're, yeah, they're making more, but they're paying more too. So I don't know where that falls. I was inclined to say that we've gained more than we've lost. Because another thing that I look at and, and I remember hearing this a long time ago and I, this was an example at the time, but saying, you know, when people quit buying records, and this is funny,'cause now people are buying records again. Yeah. But when people quit buying records, there were people who lost jobs because of that. But those jobs were then replaced by making tapes and CDs, and now you've got. People aren't buying tapes and CDs now. Mm-hmm. They're getting their music online. But what has that done? Now you've got programmers who are out there keeping all of that going and keeping the sites up and running and creating apps. And so I think what's happened is, is you see that more is required of people in order to have certain jobs. Mm-hmm. You know, it used to take a certain level for somebody to be, I don't have no idea how records are made, but you know, I'm, I'm, I'm thinking of some kind of manufacturing process. Yeah. Right. Some kind of manufacturing line. And now those people can't do that kind of job. And the things that we now need people to do are higher paying jobs and they require more specialized skills. So in that way we're better off from kind of furthering what we're getting from it

Jeff: 25:36

all. I think it's naive to say that, oh, you shouldn't have, because what happened is, is Congress started knocking down tariffs. So you have, you used to have tariffs on most foreign goods, so you're gonna pay a price on that stuff coming here. And a long time ago, that's why foreign stuff had like, there was a certain prestige to having something foreign. You know, you got it from wherever. It's like, oh, you know, that's gonna cost a lot more money than what you could get of the American version. And that's not necessarily true anymore because so many of those tariffs have been, uh, eliminated. But I think it's kind of naive to just say that you couldn't have globalization. I hate this phrase, but it is what it is. Like you're not gonna stop that tide. No, that's just the, the natural evolution, I think, of a, of an economy, a global economy. But in answering this, I do think we've lost more than we've gained just because I, I look at so many cities in the so-called rust belt, how they've just dried up people, lost jobs, and then that has so many reverberations upon the rest of society because you lose your job unemployment, now they're on welfare. Drug use is a big problem. Uh, you know, alcohol, abuse, broken families, all that shit. Like, there's just so much of it stems from not having available jobs, so, right. Yeah. Okay. Number five. How much more, if anything, needs to be done to ensure equal rights for all Americans, regardless of their racial or ethnic backgrounds? A lot. A little. Nothing at all. I'm gonna say a lot.

Chris: 27:23

I was questioning between a lot and a little. What do you think a lot is be, and I'm asking because I think a lot needs to be done attitude wise. I know we can't legislate attitudes, so when I think about legislating or what can we do, how much is that going to be that's not about changing attitudes? That's a good

Jeff: 27:48

question. So definitely attitudes need to change. Again, I, that's complicated. I dunno how you do that. Certainly can't legislate it. I, in looking at racial and ethnic stuff, for lack of a better word, I think of generally speaking, we still haven't, as a country dealt with our horrific past of racism. Dealt with that like we should. Now, what does that entail? I dunno, specifically I think about police brutality. Um, there are things that could be done there regarding police training and then all of that. So those are just two examples that I'm thinking of

Chris: 28:33

kind of on, uh, I was on the fence between a lot and a little. My, my first thought was a little, and I certainly don't disagree with what you're saying, but I'm gonna say a little, you said a lot. It'll be interesting to see how that comes out

Jeff: 28:48

different. Okay. And I got a, did you get a follow up question? I got a follow up question. Uh, I did not. Okay. Uh, my follow up question says, which comes closer to your view about what needs to be done to ensure equal rights for all Americans, regardless of their racial or ethnic backgrounds, even if neither is right. So first option, most US laws and major institutions need to be completely rebuilt because they're fundamentally biased against some racial and ethnic groups. Or while there are many inequities in US laws and institutions, necessary changes can be made by working within the current systems. I'm gonna go with the second choice. I don't think it needs to necessarily be a dismantling of a lot of our institutions, but I think they could be made a lot better. These

Chris: 29:38

are some complex questions. Yeah,

Jeff: 29:41

they are. I like it. Okay, number six. Which of the following statements comes closest to your view? Business corporations make too much profit, or most corporations make a fair and reasonable amount of profit. God, see, okay. Who are we talking about? Are we talking about Amazon? Or are we talking about mom and pop running a hardware store? They could be incorporated, but they're barely hanging on. True.

Chris: 30:18

I, when I see that, I, I think of your, your big corporations and let's say even publicly traded, things like that.

Jeff: 30:27

So I'm, I'm, uh, choosing the first one. They make too much profit. Yeah,

Chris: 30:31

that's what I'm saying. They definitely, those definitely fall in different categories. So I would tend to say business corporations we're talking about the larger ones, and I'll just say this, I certainly don't have a problem with businesses setting a price and then letting the market take care of that. As in, I think it's too expensive. Other people think it's too expensive, so they don't buy it. So then the corporation has to lower the price. Or you've got a load of people buying stuff, they raise the price to see what happens. I think that they should have that kind of freedom. Mm-hmm. Where I have the problem with them making too much profit is the ways that they're doing things that are manipulating the market. Yeah. And that's the stock buybacks and things like that where they're just raking in money. Mm-hmm. That is actually hurting the consumers and it's not the simple supply and demand of their product or service.

Jeff: 31:34

Yep. I agree. Totally. And on top of that, the tax offs, the tax write-offs they get, the credits they get. I mean, there have been some years where Amazon paid nothing in federal income tax. Yes. Which is, that's absurd. That shouldn't be a thing. No. Okay. Number seven. How much, if at all, Would it bother you to regularly hear people speak a language other than English in public places in your community? A lot, some not much. Not at all. Some wavering between, not at all and not much. I think I'm gonna put not Well, can I be guaranteed or not talking about me?

Chris: 32:25

Nope.

Jeff: 32:28

I need to be like a Elaine. Send a spy into the nail salon. There you go.

Chris: 32:35

I was wavering between not much and some, but it's not, I like hearing other languages and, and mm-hmm. I, I like, I guess I wanna say that experience. I feel like anytime I go somewhere else and, and that's just it around me. I'm probably gonna hear Spanish if I hear another language. Right. That's it. But you know, if you go, well, you can go to the airport or mm-hmm. Certainly go into another country, you may hear multiple languages, not just the one that you speak and whatever. They speak in that country, but you've got other people that came from other countries. I kinda like that. I think it's kind of exciting.

Jeff: 33:21

You know what, so I'm gonna, yeah. Okay. You might have talked me into it. I'm gonna put, not at all, because I'm thinking about when we went to New York recently, and man, it was refreshing to hear other languages spoken. I mean, you're in an international city there, and you'd hear something spoken and I would guess like, oh, what the fuck is that? I mean, sometimes you can tell, okay, that's Spanish, Italian, German, or whatever. But then sometimes you hear it and you're like, I don't even know what that is. It's kind of cool to listen to it though. They might be talking about me, but I don't know. Okay,

Chris: 33:52

so that's, well, they might, they, I, that's interesting. So what I said took you down a notch. You went from not much to, not at all. Mm-hmm. What I said took me down a notch too.'cause I was going from between some and not much. So I'm gonna stick on the Not much. On the, not much, okay. The only thing that that bothers me about it is not knowing what's being said. Yeah. And I don't even mean from the standpoint of are they talking about me? I worry about that sometimes when they're speaking English, but just like, Ooh, I wanna know. I wanna know. You know? Yeah. I've got that, that curious mindset. And so it's like, oh, that's kind of frustrating that I'm hearing this language. I don't even know what it is, or I know what it is and I can't understand it. I'm more frustrated about that. So anyway. Yeah. All

Jeff: 34:50

right. Number eight. On a scale of zero to 100, where zero means you feel as cold and negative as possible, and hundred means you feel as warm and positive as possible, how do you feel toward, and then it's got Democrats and then it's got Republicans, and we can choose an increments of 10 from zero to 100. Well,

Chris: 35:16

I'm gonna tell you right now, whatever I settle on for my ranking, it has changed a lot in the last, I'm gonna say, few years to several years. Yeah. Yeah. A lot.

Jeff: 35:33

Uh, on which one? On both. Both. Yeah.

Chris: 35:37

Yeah. I feel well there would've, there would've been a time, and we've talked about this a little bit, you know, I grew up in a. Generally Republican household. My, my dad was staunch that way. Mm-hmm. My mom, uh, kinda wavered and then they would get in their own arguments, you know, about which,'cause she would be going a different way. Um, which when I heard that and I heard the things that he was saying, and I had done some of my own research at the time and knew that what he's saying wasn't so true, then my attitude toward the Republican side started to lessen because of that without necessarily improving the way I felt about the Democratic side. Right. It, it was, it was lessening on Republican without necessarily gaining on, on Democrat in the last several years. I have lessened a whole lot on Republicans and I've gained quite a bit on Democrats. Hmm. Okay. And all of that's with a grain of salt that I find pol politicians as a whole, generally untrustworthy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Is like, you know, what, what are you saying and what are you doing? Yeah. And so I have that problem.

Jeff: 37:06

So that's interesting. I was, so when it's asking this question, is it asking about people in positions of power or is it asking about everyday average people who, you know, support that party? So I guess we have to try to determine that on our own. I can tell you right now and, and they were saying this back in 2016 and it's still true. The Republican party is the party of Trump. Yeah. I mean, like it or not. Well

Chris: 37:35

that's the thing. It's changed so much. Yeah. It has changed so much. Not just because of him. I mean, you can go back, I would say what the party has been in the two thousands, so Right. Look at, at any of the, I mean, Bush as president or any of the other candidates, um, Trump has certainly changed it a lot, but I think with, if you don't factor Trump in the party is still very different in the two thousands than it was say in the seventies, eighties.

Jeff: 38:09

Oh,

Chris: 38:10

definitely. Yeah. It it's still taking a big, big turn. Yeah.

Jeff: 38:15

So, man, I dunno what, I'm not gonna put zero, I'll put 10 on Republicans because as I said, I mean, they have, they, they are, it's Trump's party indicted three times. Like, look at polls. He's Yep. Killing everybody. Every other Republican candidate for president. I mean, that's who we're talking about. We're talking about Trump supporters. When you're talking about Republicans, for the most part,

Chris: 38:46

this is the people that, that like him, that are in favor of him think they blindly think he can do no wrong. Yeah. And so every indict to them, every indictment is just further support because like, well, this is just one more time that he's being wronged. Yeah. So

Jeff: 39:07

we need to support him even more. Yeah. They become more entrenched. Yeah, that's a good point. And then for Democrats, uh, I don't know, talking about growing up and Yeah, we've talked about this. I mean, I, my, both my parents were Democratic supporters, so that was my influence growing up. And that's been generally my influence as I've aged.

Chris: 39:33

Do you feel more, more positively or negatively toward Democrats now than you did growing up?

Jeff: 39:42

Probably about the same. The biggest problem I have with Democrats and there's always gonna be differences, like you're gonna have more mainstream Democrats and then you're gonna have, you know, more progressive liberal type Democrats. But generally speaking, I think it's about the same. The problem I have with Democrats generally is they seem to be terrible at campaigning. Yeah, they're terrible at messaging. Uh, Republicans are way better at messaging, but I don't know if that's gonna affect my answer here. I'll put a 70, I dunno what to put. I'll put a 70. I did a 70 20. Oh, okay. I got 70, so we're close. Yeah. Okay. Number nine. Which of these statements best describes your opinion about the United States? The US stands above all other countries in the world. The US is one of the greatest countries in the world. Along with some others, there are other countries that are better than the us. Okay. I'm definitely not number one.

Chris: 40:45

No, I'm not either. And I, I'm, I'm torn between along with some others or there are others better. I mean, there are others that are better. That doesn't mean that we're not still one of the greatest. One of the greatest. Yeah. I think I've gotta go in the middle with

Jeff: 41:02

that. Yeah, that's what I'm doing too. Number 10. Holy hell. How much of a problem, if any, would you say each of the following are in the people being too easily offended by things? Say major problem, minor problem. Not a problem. I'm gonna put minor. Uh, really? Yeah. I'm thinking it's kind of major. Okay. But, okay. And then is this a problem? People saying things that are very offensive to others? Oh one it's saying it's on the recipient, people receiving that and then the other is on the person saying it, I guess. Is it a cop out to put minor problem on? Both. I dunno.

Chris: 41:54

I was leaning toward minor problem on the second one. I don't know if I'm interpreting it the best way, but I'm thinking I may be saying something that could be offensive. But how big of a problem is that until the other person is offended by

Jeff: 42:12

it? Yeah, and I, I know generally because I see this on social media, people complain about people being offended too easily. I'd have to see some examples and I don't know, and I'm, I'm sure we could dig some up pretty easily, probably of where somebody said something and then people complained about that and then people come back and say, Hey, you're just too easily offended. Well, what did they say? You know, I don't know. And I tend to think like if you're talking about racial ethnic stuff, I'm a white male. What is somebody gonna say that could offend me? I mean, you know, like I'm sure we could think of something, but I know, I think I'll stick with minor on both of these. Okay. Number 11, which comes closer to your view of candidates for political office? Even if neither is exactly right, I usually feel like one there is at least a one candidate who shares most of my views, or none of the candidates represent my views. Well, I'm gonna go with the first

Chris: 43:22

one. Yeah. I would too. There's at least one.

Jeff: 43:25

Yeah. You're never gonna go. If somebody says they agree with, with a political candidate on every single thing that, that makes me think that they haven't been listening to, they're missing something saying. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Number 12. In general, how much do white people benefit from advantages in society that black people do not have a great deal? Fair amount, not too much, or not at all?

Chris: 43:52

Wow. I don't know if I can accurately answer that, because I'm sure that I have benefited from things by being white that I didn't even know I was

Jeff: 44:07

benefiting from, that you didn't even know. Yeah. And that is, that's definitely privilege. But how do you quantify it? Right.

Chris: 44:15

So I wanna say, I was going to say, I don't know, between not too much and a fair amount, but, uh, probably makes me think I should at least be saying a fair

Jeff: 44:26

amount. Yeah, that's, that was my thinking, so I'm not going lower than a fair amount. Uh, is it a great deal or fair amount though, man? Yeah, these are tough questions. Jesus. I make my students answer these. It's been a while since I've actually looked at the questions.

Chris: 44:46

Well, and I also have to consider this, you know, I, I wasn't born into, you know, government even as a white person. I wasn't born into government housing, inner city poor. Mm-hmm. Poor areas. And so some of my privilege is not necessarily because I'm white, but because of, I, I mean, I might've been a black person, for example, born into the same environment that I was born into. Then we'd have to do a comparison because I can't just look at what I have and go, oh, well a lot of that's because I was white, because some of it may not be.

Jeff: 45:30

On the other hand, I look at that and I mean, black people are more likely to be pulled over by cops and yeah, I mean, regardless of what they're driving, they've done studies on that. It doesn't matter what they're driving, if it's a piece of shit or it's a Mercedes, they're black. So man, I don't know. Yeah. Uh, okay. I guess I'll stick with fair amount, but, um, that, that troubles me. Okay. Uh, number 13, do you think greater social acceptance of people who are transgender is very good for society? Somewhat good, somewhat bad. I am marking very good. Jesus Christ, let people live.

Chris: 46:23

I agree with that. When it comes to the individual, I'm trying to think, what are we talking about for society as a whole? Well, I mean, they are a very small percentage. Mm-hmm. So how much impact is it having on society as a whole?

Jeff: 46:39

I'm thinking of, uh, well, just general acceptance, uh, but also, um, laws like should there be laws that protect them, like in public places and, and, uh, employment, stuff like that.

Chris: 46:57

Yeah. I was, I was, uh, questioning between the, I was leaning toward the somewhat good. I think I'll stick with that one.

Jeff: 47:07

Okay. Uh, Convicted of crimes in this country. Serve Too much time in prison. Too little time in prison. About the right, right amount. Time in prison. I'm putting too much. I think generally speaking, people serve too long. Yeah, I would

Chris: 47:31

say the same.

Jeff: 47:33

We went insane as a society and we've probably always been more on the harsh end compared to a lot of countries. But you know, in the 1970s, you know, Nixon starts the war on drugs. And then Reagan ramped that up in the 1980s. And here's a good example of our lawmakers in this case, not listening. They, you know, crimes on the rise. Nixon says drugs are a huge problem. Reagan says the same thing, so what do we do? Like they don't know what they're, they don't listen to the experts about how to really tackle drug problems with treatment and so on. Mm-hmm. They just wanna pass laws that will put people in prison for longer and that wins you votes. Like you're gonna get a lot of votes if you say, Hey, you know, lock them up, throw away the key. All that stuff. But what does it actually accomplish? Very little. And it costs you a shit ton of money because now you're locking more people up, so you gotta build more prisons. Yep. And then, you know, uh, you've got a whole other problem on your hands. So,

Chris: 48:45

yeah. It's amazing how much it costs to keep one person in prison for a year.

Jeff: 48:50

Yeah. It's crazy. Yep. Okay. Uh, number 15. So we only got two more here. Which of the following statements comes closest to your view? Religion should be kept separate from government policies or government policies should support religious values and benefits. That's a hard, hard click on the first one. Yep.

Chris: 49:15

Gotta be separate.

Jeff: 49:17

Yep. And whose religion are we talking about? Uh, that's a great

Chris: 49:22

question.

Jeff: 49:25

Okay. Last one. In the future, do you think number one, US policies should try to keep it so America is the only military superpower, or number two, it would be acceptable if another country became as militarily powerful as the us God damn

Chris: 49:44

well Depends on which country. Okay. Just like which religion do we want North Korea to be as powerful as

Jeff: 49:53

us? Yeah. I don't think so. So there is an argument, and I learned about this when I took an international relations course in grad school and uh, I mean there is some merit to it, but let me know what you think. The world was a safer place when you had the Soviet Union intact. The world was a better, safer place because they're huge. They have nuclear weapons. We're huge. We have nuclear weapons, and countries generally align themselves with either us or them. Right? And we, the two big boys on the kind of kept everything in check. And if you look at the. There's lot of chaotic shit in the world that probably would not act a lot, that would guarantee you, I guarantee you would not have happened if the Soviet Union was still around.

Chris: 51:01

That word is just what I was thinking is chaos. That's exactly right. Well, you have more, more players out there and you think about game theory, you know who's doing what in the game. Yeah, we talked about that. Well, it's a whole lot more complicated when you get more people in the game.

Jeff: 51:19

Absolutely. It's, yep. So damn though, I, I, there's so much more to foreign policy than just the might of your military. You know's diplomacy, but that's not involved here. So I'm

Chris: 51:39

the. Okay. But I will, but I'll say on that one too. Now we could talk about how much the US spends or Yeah. Or the size of our military relative to, and it's like, what is it? I, I can't remember the exact number. Our military is larger than the next, it's like 30 something countries. 20 something. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. At least 20 something, 30 something combined. Right. Well that seems a little excessive.

Jeff: 52:13

I agree. I agree.

Chris: 52:15

So we can be a superpower without being a super, super

Jeff: 52:19

superpower. Exactly. Yeah. Tone it down a little bit. Okay. That's it. Are we ready to submit? See what we got Ready? Yeah. Alright, let's do it. A little nervous. Okay. I got. It says your best fit is progressive, left along with 6% of the public.

Chris: 52:46

Okay, I got Democratic mainstays along with 16% of the public.

Jeff: 52:53

Okay, so more people in your group. So if you're not following along, right, while we're giving this, it gives us the traditional political spectrum. So left to right, left being liberal, right, being conservative. And so I'm at the farthest left and then year two to the right of me. So pretty close it gives descriptions. You can read the Democratic mainstay thing in a second. Uh, the progressive left description says, uh, it the only majority, white, non-Hispanic, democratic. They have very liberal views on virtually every issue and support far reaching changes to address racial injustice and expand the social safety net. They're among the smallest typology groups, but also one of the most politically engaged. They feel less warmly towards the Democratic party than establishment liberals or democratic mainstays. But those who voted in the 2020 general election were nearly unanimous in their support for Joe Biden. They're the only group in which a majority say they like political leaders who identify as democratic socialists. Interesting. Mm-hmm. Okay. What's

Chris: 54:06

yours? Wine says, democratic mainstays make up a larger share of the Democratic coalition than any other group, older than other democratic oriented groups. They also have the highest share of black non-Hispanic adults of any political typology group, and six in 10 are women. They generally favor. Policies that expand the social safety net and support higher taxes on corporations, but they have a moderate tilt on other issues including immigration and crime. Nearly half consider themselves strong Democrats and they're generally positive about the Democratic Party and its leaders. Leaders.

Jeff: 54:48

Interesting. So do you feel like it fits you? I feel like mine fits me pretty well,

Chris: 54:54

I think generally. So, you know, if a couple of those, couple of three questions at the most, probably if I had answered a little bit differently where I was on the line, I'm thinking it probably would've pushed me a little bit more to the right, which would've been outsider. But that's still outsider left. That's still left of center, yeah. Now I'll say this, I took, you gave me a quiz, a different quiz, years and years ago. Um, we, it was scored on a zero to 40 scale. Hmm. Okay. And 40 was as Republican as possible. Zero as Democrat as possible. Mm-hmm. I was 27, so just a little to the right of center. Okay. I'm probably about as far to the left of center now as I was to the right of center then, which I think is, that's a pretty big shift to me. Yeah. It's, yeah. And, and that's, that's exactly what I was describing, you know, before we started or when we started this is I have felt a lot of that change happen in those, you know, at least 10 to 15 years for sure. Right. Well that was good. Yeah, it was very interesting. Gave us stuff to talk about for sure.

Jeff: 56:20

Okay, there you go. That is another episode. If you like this kind of stuff, then you should absolutely, positively without a doubt, follow us on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on. That way you're gonna get new episodes delivered to you automatically. You never even have to do anything. They'll just appear magically on your device every single Tuesday when they drop. And while you're there, we would really like it if you could rate us, and of course we'd be grateful if you'd give us five stars. And while you're there, go ahead and type something. It doesn't matter what you type, uh, but if you do that, it makes it easier for people to discover the show on these apps. We have a website, it's Subpar Talks com. There you can email us, you can leave us a voicemail. If you wanna make suggestions for topics we should cover and future episodes, go ahead and do that. We always take. We are on social media, on Twitter or whatever we're calling it now. We are at Subpar Talks on Facebook. We're Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitter accounts, you can do that as well on there. I'm at

Chris: 57:30

independentjeff and I am at Chris Bradford tx,

Jeff: 57:35

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Chris: 58:03

Yeah, I feel

Jeff: 58:04

very exposed. Yeah, I do too. Uh, we'll, we'll call this episode coming out or we expose ourselves, something along those lines. All of the above. Yeah. Alright, that is an episode wrap, and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.