E55 - Labor Day and Drugs

Jeff: 0:00

This week, work stories, stuck on a swing, old white men, and drugs. Welcome to Subpar Talks. Hey everybody. Welcome to Subpar Talks, where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff.

Chris: 0:32

And I'm Chris.

Jeff: 0:34

Thank you again for joining us and yes, it is our standard disclaimer. Before we get started, listener discretion is advised. We are gonna curse from time to time, maybe a lot, and depending on the episode, we will touch on some mature subject matter. We inject our humor into a lot of this stuff. So if that is not your thing, then maybe we are not your thing, but for everybody else, settle in because here we go with this week's topics. All right, so yesterday was Labor Day, and I thought we might start off with some Labor Day themed topic. But honestly, I don't really have a lot there, but I don't think a lot happens for Labor Day. No. And I'll tell you what, nothing says America like having places opened on Labor Day. Right. You know, you're supposed to celebrate American workers. And what better way to celebrate Amer American workers then by giving them a day off. Put'em to work. Put'em to work. Yeah. Have all sorts of sales where people have to come in and labor on Labor Day. But anyway, have you ever been injured on the job?

Chris: 1:48

Injured? Wow. Yeah, I have. I did some, uh, remodeling work before, and I think the, the biggest thing was, uh, I was up in an attic and I was walking along, I was ducked down to try to avoid the, the rafters. Yeah, but I missed one and I went just smack dab into it. Knocked me back. Scared the shit outta me because it came outta

Jeff: 2:22

nowhere. Yeah. Damn. But knocked

Chris: 2:25

me back and I, I went and looked in the mirror and I just had this line of blood. It had, uh, It had like scalped me in that area, like the hair and everything was kind of peeled back as

Jeff: 2:41

nasty. Damn. Were you concussed? Uh,

Chris: 2:45

no I wasn't, but man, it hurt really bad. Yeah, it sounds like it. Yeah, and I, I have a little bit of a scar there from it too. It Oh, wow. It didn't completely go away. But that was kind of a, a contract type job. I. You know, mostly I'm working, I worked in office environments, right? And so there's not a whole lot that's gonna happen while I'm sitting in my chair.

Jeff: 3:14

No. Although we get videos now where, uh, I mean we have to watch'em, uh, you know,'cause HR requires them, but, How to not have bad posture and, and all that shit. And every time I look at those videos, I'm, I'm doing all the wrong things. I'm all slumped over in my chair and, you know, not standing up often enough and all that. Yeah. It

Chris: 3:38

reminds me of, uh, one of the office episodes where they were doing, uh, safety training in the office. Well, the office people went down to the warehouse to participate in their training. They're talking about all their heavy equipment and forklifts and the baler and all this stuff, and ways that they could get hurt. And then the warehouse people come up to the office and they're listening to them and they're talking about exactly that. Like, oh, wear something if it's cold in the office. Make sure to get up and stretch. Rest your eyes. Be careful of carpal

Jeff: 4:14

tunnel syndrome. Yes. Yep. It's on a whole different level. Yep.

Chris: 4:20

So have you ever

Jeff: 4:20

been injured? Well, okay. Speaking of being in the office, that's where my, I'm gonna knock on wood here. Hope I don't jinx anything. But that's where my worst injury has been. Uh, I guess it's my worst, but I was standing on a chair. That's mistake number one. I was trying to hang a clock and yeah, the chair was, it wasn't that stable and just came out from under me. And I came down, sprained the ever loving shit outta my ankle. I. Really just messed it all up. Yeah. Well that's no good. I got frostbite once when I was a valet. Did you really

Chris: 5:02

like full on

Jeff: 5:03

frostbite? Yeah, so it had, uh, it had sleeted and snowed quite a bit and my shoes. Were already shit. They had a hole in the sole of'em. I just hadn't replaced them yet. Because when you're a valet, you're gonna wear out shoes really fast. Mm-hmm. And I didn't really think anything of it going into work that day, but I'm just going along with doing my thing. And yeah, my foot's cold and oh fuck, my socks wet, but I think it'll be okay. And it was fucking cold too. And. Man, now my toes are kind of hurting, like what is that about? But I just kept doing it'cause we were busy and I get home and I take off my shoe and my, my toes are all swollen and red. Yeah, actually they weren't red yet. They got red when I, I put hot water on them and yeah, they were just kind of pale and disgusting looking at first. Wow. Uh, I put'em in hot water and then I was like, do I need to be worried here? Like, am I gonna lose toes or anything? So I went to the doctor the next day and I don't know that they really did anything. I mean, I think they said that I was gonna be all right. I mean, I still had circulation and all that. So, yeah.

Chris: 6:32

See, that kind of makes me paranoid because. My toes in particular always feel like that when it's cold outside, that's the first, one of the first things that gets cold with me. Right? My hands

Jeff: 6:45

and my feet. Yeah. Same here. But I knew this was, I knew this was not normal because they were hurting, and then when I took my shoe and sock off when I got home, they were swollen. Like, oh God, that's not right. Like, something's wrong. That's not right. No, it's not. No, I've never seen

Chris: 7:04

that

Jeff: 7:05

before. What if the doctor had said that when I took my shoe off? What is that? What is that? Um, have you ever seen anybody else get injured on the job?

Chris: 7:19

Oh wow. I don't think so. Not anything. Well, not anything serious, I'll put it that way. Mm-hmm. I mean, I've seen things happen. I know. I remember one time. Someone stood up on their desk in a cube, and so the desk of the cube was supported by the cube walls, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And something happened. I was, I was around the corner. And I just heard this massive crash and walked around and the whole desk had dislodged from the cube walls and was now on the floor, and the person had been standing on the desk, the whole thing fell down

Jeff: 8:06

with him. Why were they standing on the desk? They were

Chris: 8:09

hanging something up. I, I wanna say they were hanging, hanging something up on the cube wall or maybe even up on the ceiling. Decoration or something. Um, but I didn't know that could happen. I mean, I would think it would be, you know, like hooked where it couldn't fall down.

Jeff: 8:29

Yeah. That doesn't

Chris: 8:30

sound right. Like you'd to push it up to hook it. Right? I don't. Or to unhook it. I mean, so I have no idea.

Jeff: 8:37

It makes me think they weren't assembled correctly. Yeah. See that

Chris: 8:40

could have been a

Jeff: 8:41

lawsuit right there. Sure could have. So speaking of when I was a valet, uh, this wasn't anybody I worked with, but there was some electrical issue, like power was out in a building or something and they had people working there, uh, climbing up the telephone pole and a guy got electrocuted, died. Really? Oh, wow. And I didn't, I'm trying to think. I don't remember if I heard it. Or if I remember people telling me that they heard it, but I definitely smelled it. Like, it smelled like, oh, something's burning here. Yeah. And uh, they had to call out, you know, the fire department and go up and get the guy. So that was pretty gruesome. That's horrible. It is. And for one summer I worked at, so it was called Roadway Package Systems. It was a, like a competitor to u P s. Although r p s is defunct now, so that tells you how well things went in that regard. But, uh, I worked like the afternoon shifts and when I got into work, they had a whole section of the warehouse closed off because a dude, like I said, we inject our humor into all this stuff. A dude had been crushed by a truck. A truck kept backing up Oh no, to the dock. And for whatever reason, the driver, I don't know what was going on. He didn't hear him or wasn't paying attention or whatever, and then the guy like, why were you standing? Where trucks back up? I, I don't know that either. Yeah. But he got crushed and died. Yeah. Oh, he died. Yeah. Yeah. He died. Yeah, well that's kind of final. Oh, you don't want that fatal. It's fatal. Yeah. So that was pretty gruesome to come into work and then find out, oh, somebody died and you're gonna be working here tonight, so good luck. No kidding. Maybe that's part of the reason they went outta business. The family could be the fuck outta might be. So anyway. Happy Labor Day, everybody. Yeah, we

Chris: 11:07

can be glad we're, uh, comfortable in our chairs right now.

Jeff: 11:10

Right? All those slumped over my posture's. Terrible.

Chris: 11:18

So how do you feel about heights? Do does it

Jeff: 11:22

bother you? Heights generally don't bother me. I will say it kind of depends on the setting. If I am up really high in a building, uh, like I haven't been up there, but I'm talking about really high, like the Empire State Building, the Sears Tower in Chicago, whatever it's called now, if I'm enclosed in a space like that, doesn't bother me at all. I can look out, look down. I don't mind that Toronto, the CN tower, that massive, yeah, massively tall tower in Toronto. They've got a, uh, in one part. They've got a glass floor and you can just walk out onto the glass floor. Oh, really? And yeah, that was an experience, but I wasn't freaked out about it. Uh, like people were jumping up and down on it when I was there and I was like, yeah, you, I'm, I'm cool with that. But it is something to just walk out there and like, there's nothing below you obviously, except the glass. Yeah. But if I'm outside and really high, that does kind of bother me. So at Six Flags in, in Arlington, Texas, there's a tower that I don't really know what the point of that whole thing is, but it's really high. I mean, it's the tallest thing in the park, I think. So they call it

Chris: 12:42

an, they call it an oil Derrick. I never really thought it looked like an oil Derrick, but

Jeff: 12:48

that's what they called it. No, I didn't. I didn't either. Anyway. They close that off. I've been there when it's windy and they'll shut it down. They don't let people go up there, but I've been up there and you, you get high up and the wind's blowing a lot, and that kind of freaks me out. Yeah, because it's open. Yeah. Like there's just nothing there. So anyway. Why do you ask?

Chris: 13:10

Well, it, yeah, it does Me too. Being out in the open like that, that in that in particular, being up on that tower. Mm-hmm. That can freak me out too. I'm better about things when I'm enclosed. Like you said, being up in a tall building doesn't really bother me. Once I get out in the open, it's a whole other story. Yeah. So you bring up Six Flags. That was what I was gonna talk about is just the other day the, so it's the tallest ride there and it's actually taller than that tower. That tower is, uh, I think 300 or 350 feet. This ride is 400 feet. Oh my God. So it's swings, the swings that go

Jeff: 13:55

around. Oh yeah.

Chris: 13:57

Okay. But it's that tall, crazy tall. Yeah. I've ridden at one time I wished I hadn't like it. Just that whole I, I made the mistake. Well, it would've bothered me anyway, but as we were going up, I made the mistake of looking up. Mm-hmm. Like up the tower, the up the, the column. Yeah. That we were going up. Yeah. And I was like, oh, holy shit. We still have like, we were like halfway up and I saw how much farther we had to go. Like, oh, oh damn.

Jeff: 14:33

I've always looked at that and thought I don't want to be that high just going around on a swing. I just, I didn't never wanna do it.

Chris: 14:42

So that's it. I don't like going in circles. Yeah. And I don't like being out in the open up high. And there I was doing both of them.

Jeff: 14:52

Yeah, that's no

Chris: 14:52

good. And it was all because my daughter wanted me to ride it. I was like, okay, I'll go do it. And so anyway, the other day that ride got stuck. Oh my God. And these people were just hanging on the swings. They had a picture of it where, you know, when it's going around, they're usually out at like a, you know, 30, 45 degree angle. Mm-hmm. They're hanging straight down. Oh God. In swings. They were stuck up there for three hours. Oh. Fucking in over a hundred degree

Jeff: 15:28

heat. Oh my God. Yeah. That's, that's a nightmare. Yeah, that would be horrible. Jesus Christ. Wow.

Chris: 15:39

And it just makes me, when I hear stuff like that, it makes me second guess why I've ever gotten on any

Jeff: 15:45

ride. Well, I know it, but, so three hours, that's one thing. If it's like 75, 80 degrees, it's over a hundred degrees and the sun's out. You're just baking up there. Did anybody pass out? Did anybody die

Chris: 16:02

it? No, nobody died for sure. It didn't say. I mean, I know they would've said that. It didn't say anything about whether anybody needed medical attention. It's surprising that they wouldn't in that amount of time being up there like that. I mean, for what it's worth, at least allegedly, you could have some breeze up there. Um, of course here in Texas when you get a breeze now it just feels like a convection oven, so.

Jeff: 16:31

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a hot wind. Yeah.

Chris: 16:35

Yeah. Wow. But anyway, I, you know, I saw that, I'm like, the very idea that we get on any of these rides and anything like that can go wrong, it's, it's really crazy. You just have to suspend your thought about that completely. If you're gonna get on something.

Jeff: 16:54

We should do a show on like the worst theme park disasters in history, and I could probably talk myself into never getting on a ride ever again. Yeah. Just from hearing that story, what you just recounted. I mean, nobody even died there, but can you imagine being stuck in that situation? No, for three hours. Oh my God. No.

Chris: 17:18

Yeah. That's terrible. Well, and you hear, I mean, other stories that are much worse than that, you know, there was, uh, some years ago, some apparently, like massively obese woman, what do we say? Morbidly obese. Yeah. Got ejected. The, the lap bar wouldn't come down completely on her. On the Texas giant, the wooden rollercoaster. Yeah. She flew out of it and died. And her son now, I think he was grown. It was a grown son. Not that that makes it any better, but he was with her and of course they sued six

Jeff: 17:59

Flags. Well, yeah, because they're supposed to check. I mean, they go by and check to make sure that bar is locked. I get paranoid about that. So the ride, the rollercoaster rides or whatever it is that you have to pull down over your head. Mm-hmm. And they go over your chest. I pull that thing down to where it's hard for me to breathe because I wanna make sure like I'm not moving at all. Like this is not gonna come undone. Yeah.

Chris: 18:27

Yeah. I get well, but then on those rides, see, My problem is I pull the thing down and then I get claustrophobic while we're sitting there waiting for it to go. Yeah, right. But it doesn't bother me. While the ride's going, I'm constant, you know, I'm thinking about the ride, having fun, whatever. But when we're just sitting there getting the thing pulled down, I'm freaking out. Then like, okay, I, I gotta move around and you barely can. I'm like, all

Jeff: 18:58

right, we gotta go. Can't get a deep breath and then I, no slight like start silently freaking out. Yes. Start the ride already. Start

Chris: 19:09

the train. So there was, that just reminded me of the story, like, I think a month ago or so where they found this massive crack in a roller coaster and it was right before it was set to open.

Jeff: 19:22

Yes. Yeah. So, so, no, I thought people were already on it. I

Chris: 19:27

didn't, oh, I don't know. I didn't think so. I thought they caught it during the inspection before

Jeff: 19:33

it opened. Well, I saw video of people, well, I think there were people on it, but the rollercoaster was definitely going, and that bar was like totally separate. It was because of the crack and it was just like swaying back and forth. Oh man. But I don't remember now if there were people on it or not, but. Damn.

Chris: 19:52

Well, I like your idea of doing a show on that, but you're right. It, it could probably just about end, end us being on rides ever again.

Jeff: 20:02

Yeah. Oh, well, at least we'll live or we we'll die because of that.

Chris: 20:08

Yeah, that's the more correct way to say it.

Jeff: 20:16

Okay. So something we talked about on a previous show, I don't remember what it was, but we mentioned, uh, like term limits for people in Congress or maybe Supreme Court justices. Yeah. Maybe age limits too, like mm-hmm. Once you reach this particular age, you can no longer serve. And that always comes up in my classes because my students see who's running, whether it's for president or whatever, and their perception. I mean, this is the perception of, you know, 18, 19, 20 year olds mostly, and they're saying, oh my God, it's another old pasty white man who's trying to get elected again. And why don't we have age limits or term limits and get somebody else? So, I don't know. I definitely want to get your thought on that. Let me give you my, basically, if I can run down my arguments in a cohesive way, I'm conflicted on it. I do tend to think that we need some, I'm more, I would say more for age limits than term limits, but I think we do need some, some limitations in it. You look at, so I just looked this up. The average age of US senators right now is 65. Whoa. The average, yeah. The average age of representatives in the house is 57. You look at other jobs that, I mean, whatever it is, bus drivers, commercial airline pilots, whatever. I mean, they have age limits on their jobs. Mm-hmm. And we're talking about people in positions of power. They do have a lot of power. They're in control of our laws and policies and, and you know, Supreme Court justices, federal court judges, they're making major decisions on stuff. So shouldn't we limit. How long they can serve or just limit how old they can be when they're in office. Yeah. On the other hand, we, the people are ultimately the ones in charge theoretically anyway, so why shouldn't we be able to put that old crusty, pasty. White man in power. Again, if that's who we want, like if you're telling me that we can no longer vote for them because they're too old or they've served X amount of terms, aren't you taking power away from me, the voter? If that's the person I want in office, then why can't I? Why can't I do that? Yeah, that's a good point. So I don't know, what do you think about all this?

Chris: 23:06

In in that context then what do you think about term limits? Because then it could be, then it doesn't matter if they're 40 years old or 80 years old, if they've served X number of terms, they can't do it again. Which then begs the question of why do we have term limits for president?

Jeff: 23:25

Well, that came by amendment. It was the, uh, 20, I think it's the 22nd amendment. It was basically a response to F D R who kept running and getting elected by overwhelming majorities. Yeah. Elected in 1932, reelected in 36, reelected in 40, reelected in 44, died in 1945. And by that point, I think people were like, okay, well we need to get a handle on this. Yeah. And so they got enough support somehow. To get that through. But again, you're taking people or you're taking power away from the people, so I'm conflicted on it. So my,

Chris: 24:14

my thing about age, first of all, I used to not like the idea of having age limits, uh, term limits. I wasn't so much in opposition to, because again, you could be 40 or 80. And you've exceeded your, your number of terms, well then, okay, you're out just like a president. I was more against the idea of age limits because I didn't want, I don't know, I didn't like the idea of seeming unfair to someone just because they're older. Mm-hmm. Because just, just because someone is older doesn't by definition make them unfit to serve. Right. However, you know, you brought up airline pilots as an example. Well, just because they're 65 doesn't mean they're unfit to fly either. But we all know that as we get older, there's, there's a greater propensity for something to happen. Mm-hmm. Whatever that is. And when you're talking about an airline pilot who's got two or 300 people on board, you don't want that happening to them while they're flying a plane. Right. But in Congress, you know, in in Congress, Senate House, either one, something that I have become much more aware of is not, in some cases it may be their ability to, to think and reason, which might be related to age. Mm-hmm. But the thing that stands out even more so to me, Is their lack of being in touch. Yeah. Like they've just lost touch. If you're an 80 year old, there is no way that you are in as a rule. Okay. As a general rule, I grant that there are absolutely exceptions here, but your average 80 year old is nowhere near as in touch with the world as a 40 year old, and therefore, They're not representing the, the same, they don't have the ability to, to understand and comprehend all the information that they're taking in because they don't have the context to put it in. Yeah, that's my biggest problem with it. And so yeah, I am more of the mind now that I would definitely support an age limit for that reason. And you're going to catch. More of the people that way who shouldn't be serving rather than the number that you're gonna pun punish, who would be exceptions to that?

Jeff: 27:05

Yeah. That is one of the main arguments for just term limits in general, is you become entrenched in Congress and you lose touch with, you know, the needs, the wants of everyday average Americans. Yeah, for sure. I also think we need it. We're focusing on Congress, but I think we need it for definitely Supreme Court justices. I mean, I don't know about lower, you know, federal judges, but definitely Supreme Court justices because what's happening now is, yeah. You know, it used to be a long time ago you nominated somebody and that was like you nominated somebody through the Supreme Court and they had been. In law for decades, and, and they were, you know, well respected. There were exceptions to that, but for the most part, these were pretty old people to begin with. But now mm-hmm. Uh, you're seeing presidents and nominate people who are in their mid, late forties, early fifties. Right. I think John Roberts was 50 when he became Chief Justice. Because the two parties know that, hey, if we can get somebody on the court and they're guaranteed to be there for 30 or 35 years or longer, then that's, you know, that's somebody who's in our corner and all these important cases come up, and so we're gonna have, you know, somebody vote our way. Yeah. In that case, maybe limit how long they can serve. Again, you know, like your example before, whether they're 40 or 80. So that made me, makes me think maybe they should serve, I don't know, 20 years max, and then get somebody else on there, or I don't know. In order to do this, you're gonna have to have a constitutional amendment right, and good luck with all that, right? I mean, it's super hard to do, but you're gonna have to have input from the very people who are gonna be limited by that. And that's the members of Congress. So, You're gonna find it very hard to convince them. Sure. You know, to limit their time in office.

Chris: 29:17

So for the Supreme Court, would you be more for limiting their time or limiting their age?

Jeff: 29:23

I think because you have so many people getting nominated now who are younger, I think I would be okay with limiting their terms. I'm not talking for Supreme Court Justice. I'm not talking about like four or eight years. I think something like 20 years. Mm-hmm. Might be reasonable. I don't know. I hadn't really thought about that, but yeah, I think I would be more in favor of term limits for them as opposed to term limits for members of Congress, simply because you're not really taking away anybody's power like you would be with term limits in Congress. Right. Again, it's one of those issues. I could probably be persuaded the other way.

Chris: 30:04

Well, I think something needs to happen. I'm with you. Uh, the way things have changed and, and there again, I think going back to, you know, are, are the justices, are the representatives, are the senators in touch with the people and truly representing well? That's not the job of the justices is not to represent the people, but mm-hmm. But it is to, to represent, they are to interpret what's going on in the world and put it in the context of the Constitution, you know, is such and such constitutional. Well, they have to be aware enough of the way the world is working now to help determine that.

Jeff: 30:53

Right. So the longest serving member of the US Senate, Robert Bird from West Virginia. Mm-hmm. Jesus Christ. He entered office in 1959 and he retired or died, I don't know which. In 2010, he served for 51 years, five months, and 26 days.

Chris: 31:23

That's a. That's serious. Something, I don't know if it's dedication or was, was he just getting too many perks with the job and didn't wanna leave, but nobody works Other, most people don't work Other jobs for 50 something years.

Jeff: 31:41

No. No. Yeah, I don't know what that is. The longest serving. So this person holds the record for longest serving member of Congress. House or Senate. He was a house member from a district in Michigan. John Dingle served for 59 years and 21 days. So that's about two years longer than Robert Bird, God Almighty. That's just

Chris: 32:09

insane.

Jeff: 32:10

Oh, he retired. He's dead now. He retired. Robert Bird died in office, so that senator died in office. Wow. Okay. That's too long. So he still wasn't done? No, he wasn't. He was gonna keep going. God said that's enough. Okay. So I came across an article recently about organ and drugs, and I don't know if you knew this, let me know. Uh, back in 2020 or 2020 is when Oregon residents voted on it. But they voted to decriminalize drugs in Oregon. Did you know this? Like all drugs? Yeah, everything. No. As far as I know, it's everything. Like from weed to the hardest shit that's out there. Yeah. Well that seems a little extreme. Well, and I think there are, I think there are limits, like if you're carrying. A hundred pounds of fentanyl or whatever, then I don't think that applies. And uh, of course you could still be prosecuted under federal law. But as far as just state law, they decriminalized a lot of drugs. And I haven't really been paying attention to this, but there was an article in the New York Times recently, they kind of gave an update on how things are going. And in a nutshell, not good. They have big surprise. Yeah. I'll post this in the episode notes, but they have a graph here on the number of o uh, drug overdoses by year, going back to 2015 and back in 2015, Oregon had about 500 overdoses, and these are overdoses relating in death, about 500. And then in 2022, they had over 1300. So it's more than doubled since 2015. Now it was. Oh, that's a big difference. It is a big difference. So 2020, I guess would've been the last year that they were under the old system, and it looks like about 700 deaths. But even just going from there, you are nearly double what it was. Yeah. So this is another thing that I'm conflicted on. I think people generally spend way too long in prison for most crimes and drug crimes. I'm talking about, I'm not talking about like distributing drugs, I'm not talking about people running drugs, traffickers, all that. I'm talking about people just in simple possession. I think people generally spend too long in prison, and I think that's one of these things that this policy was aimed at correcting. Probably also, We know through study after study, there are mass discrepancies between black people getting arrested for possession of drugs versus white people, the amount of time that black people spend in in prison versus white people for similar offenses. So I think Oregon being a liberal state, they, this was probably a motivation, part of the motivation anyway, to correct that right. Where you run into a problem is what happens when somebody has an actual addiction. And that's really what this article right, focused on is. And I like this comparison that the writer gave. It's like drug addiction is a disease. It's like alcoholism. It is a disease. Mm-hmm. But diseases, whether it's cancer or or pneumonia or covid or whatever, When you've got something, you want to get rid of it. But when people have an addiction to something, what motivation really do they have to get rid of it because

Chris: 36:10

Yeah, they've gotta

Jeff: 36:10

hit the bottom. Yeah. I feel like I bring up George Carlin a a lot. I probably do, but George Carlin said, you know, why people take drugs? It's because they work. Like if it didn't, if it didn't achieve the desired result that people wanted, Then they, they wouldn't take it. So it's obviously they like what they're doing and even if they realize there's a problem and you, you've got hardcore drugs there where people have an actual addiction and it's gonna take some intervention for them to stop it. So they, they compared what they've done in Oregon to Portugal, and I don't know if you knew this, but Portugal decriminalized drugs back in 2000. So they're way ahead of the curve on that. Yeah. But this is what the article focused on is, is how do you, how do you enforce that? Because what Portugal does is they incentivize people to get treatment, but if people don't get treatment, there are punishments. That can be doled out, for example. I mean, they're not throwing people in prison, but they can keep you from holding certain jobs. They can keep you from, I think it said, living in certain areas in Portugal, like they can restrict you, you know, and, and if you don't get the treatment that you need, Oregon doesn't have that at all. Basically what it is, is people get a hundred dollars fine if they're caught with drugs. Mm-hmm. They confiscate the drugs. People can get out of that fine if they call a treatment center and like promise to go or whatever. And then of course, what's somebody gonna do? And then they just don't go. Yeah. They call and get out of the fine and then that's it. So the article said a lot of cops, uh, in Portland, places like that, they've just stopped giving fines. It's like, what is the fucking point? Like, what are we doing? Mm-hmm. If you have any bright solutions, I'd, I'd like to hear'em. I, I have a lot of problems with the war on drugs, but it seems like Oregon went the wrong way with this. Yeah,

Chris: 38:23

yeah, it does. It sounds way too extreme. You know, I've talked about this recently and, and I, I have battles with myself over this is the things that I believe versus. Or, or the things that people believe, and I'm putting myself in this category, is you have your beliefs and then there's reality. You know, and, and I, I want to believe that, let's say the war on drugs is a good thing. Like let's just wipe it out and that takes care of the problem. But we know that it doesn't. And so that's the thing I, I, I think I want to believe that, but I recognize that the information tells us otherwise. So then it's kind of the same thing on the reverse side is if you think that decriminalizing drugs is gonna be a good thing, well you could do it, but then let's look at what actually happens. And I. Do, does the data, do the results, support, whatever your belief was and like you're saying, well, it doesn't appear that it does in Oregon, so Yeah, looking at Portugal, yeah, maybe they've got something really going in the right direction that Oregon's not doing and Oregon needs to make a an

Jeff: 39:51

adjustment there. I think they are gonna have to make an adjustment, but I'll tell you what. This will motivate anybody regardless of what they are. Politically, democrat, republican, political ideology, liberal, conservative, what have you, is when cities or the state in general starts losing tourism dollars. Mm-hmm. Then that's gonna motivate them to change stuff and holy shit, they're talking to this woman in this article. She runs, I think a coffee shop in, in downtown Portland, and she said she's walking to work. And she sees needles on the ground. There's shit. People just stop and take a shit on the ground. You know they're high and what the fuck do they care? They don't care whether they where they shit, they just shit on the sidewalk. So she has to dodge that needles. Just homeless people. And the reason they're homeless is because they have an addiction that. When stuff is, I know it's not legalized, but in this case decriminalized, there's gonna be more of an opportunity to get that thing right. Yeah. If people know there's no consequence to it, really. That's why overdose deaths have gone up. But you start getting a reputation like that as a city and people aren't gonna want to come there. They're not gonna want to come to your state. They're not gonna come to that city. Businesses aren't gonna wanna hold conferences there. You're gonna lose dollars and that's gonna motivate the city council. I would think that's, that's a really good point to re rethink some things, but we'll see. The money talks. Yeah, money talks. And I wanna draw a distinction here too. I mean, I'm just using the term drugs. There's definitely a difference between weeded and heroin like Yep. I think you have to treat those very differently. You can't treat everything the same. And evidently, that's what Oregon is doing here. Hmm. Hopefully they

Chris: 41:50

can make those adjustments and get it

Jeff: 41:52

together. Yep. We'll see. Okay. Speaking of drugs, what drugs would, I'm not talking about, uh, You can wipe prescription drugs off of this. So no oxy anything? No fentanyl, nothing like that. What drugs for you are totally off the table? You would never consider taking them. So illegal drugs? Yeah. Yeah. Heroin. Yeah, me too. Off the table. Yeah.

Chris: 42:27

It scares the shit out me. First of all, you could die from one time, so, I don't need that.

Jeff: 42:36

I just, it's not gonna be good for business. No, it's not.

Chris: 42:41

And then the, the addiction part of it, I, I think, you know, just from, I, I don't know, I don't personally know anyone who has had a heroin addiction. I have known people that know people. Um, I, I know of a person through someone else who died of an overdose of heroin. Yeah. And so, you know, there's just too much of that kind of stuff that, that, uh, it's, it's off the table. Cocaine is off the table, but it's off the table for, it's off the table because of the addiction part of it, and not because of the, you know, I'm not afraid of dying. Um, and I, I don't know if that's naive, but I don't hear about people getting, you know, cocaine, overdoses all the time, like you hear about heroin. Right? I would be concerned about liking it too much. That's what it is. I, I have heard from more than one person that it's pretty great

Jeff: 43:51

and well, So can't you get a, I mean, doesn't your heart start going nuts? Like, I'm afraid I'd have a heart attack. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, but that's a problem. So, yeah. But with, with cocaine, some people, some people can just take it and it doesn't, like they, they don't have to have it again. Like they, it's something they do every once in a while, and then other people, they get addicted to it. It causes massive problems in their life. And I'm afraid I would be like that. Like I don't, I wouldn't do it anyway. That's off the table for me. But if I did, that'd be my fear. But the addiction thing too, you're right. What if it felt good? Well, I imagine a heroin high feels pretty damn good too. Probably. And I'm thinking about, have you ever had morphine? I don't think

Chris: 44:43

I have had morphine. I've had Dilaudid. I think that's what it's called. And it was pretty all right.

Jeff: 44:53

I've had morphine, um, wait,

Chris: 44:55

I did have morphine. I had morphine once

Jeff: 44:58

for sure. Yeah. Okay. On the street corner? No,

Chris: 45:04

no, I, I forgot'cause it was only one time. But yeah, it, it was, it was pretty good. But that Dilaudid was even more

Jeff: 45:12

so. Really. Okay. I don't know what that is. Yeah. But, but morphine man, so this is when I know for sure I had it when I, uh, had my appendix out. Mm-hmm. You know, I went into the ER for that and I'm pretty sure I've had it one other time, but I can't remember what the circumstance was. But anyway, man, they put that needle in you. You feel it go in, it's cold. You could. Mm-hmm. It's cold in your body and oh my God. Then that relaxation that hits you. And I remember thinking at the time, I can understand why people could get addicted to stuff like that. Holy shit. Because it was nice. Yeah. Yeah. So that kind of worried me thinking about that like, Damn. Yeah. What if this was readily available? That's no good. No, I could, I could

Chris: 46:03

totally see that. And then there's, uh, propanol, isn't that what it's called? That's what Michael

Jeff: 46:09

Jackson had. It was the last thing he had. It was

Chris: 46:13

the last thing. Yeah. Yeah. I've had that several times for just outpatient procedure things. Mm-hmm. That stuff is nice. Yeah, you can, you can feel yourself going. Then you're just out. You might be kind of in and out or, or totally out, but then you wake up pretty well and you might feel a little tired and then, oh, I'm gonna take a nap. And that's all right.

Jeff: 46:45

Is that what they give you for oral surgery? Do you know? It could

Chris: 46:50

be not necess, uh, it could be. I don't know. It, it might

Jeff: 46:56

depend because I've had, I've had that and yeah, that knocked me out. But it doesn't, it's not like general anesthesia that could knock you out for hours. Right. This stuff knocks you out for, I dunno, whatever it is, st. 30 minutes and then you wake up and it feels like you've been asleep for like a minute. But that's

Chris: 47:14

it. Yeah. It, that's very it. That's the feeling. So it's very likely

Jeff: 47:19

something like that. The feeling that you get when it's starting to take effect. That's nice. But then it knocks you out with the morphine. You don't get knocked out's, just No, you're still there. A little swimming. Yeah. Yeah, swimming. That's, that's a good way to put it. Yeah. So we're probably missing some. Oh, meth. Would you ever take meth? No, I couldn't do that. Wouldn't No. No, especially not

Chris: 47:45

after seeing, breaking back. Right? Those methods, man, out of their mind. Out of their fucking mind and just nasty looking nasty,

Jeff: 47:57

like, oh yeah. The, um, oh God, I don't remember her name, but her and her husband, the ones who stole the a t A. The snk. The skk.

Chris: 48:10

Uh, he was, he was, um, spoog.

Jeff: 48:15

Spoog, yes. Spoog in the sk. And I don't

Chris: 48:18

remember if she

Jeff: 48:19

had another name, I dunno. But they were disgusting, gross, you know, they used to sell. Well back a long time ago, they sold stuff over the counter that was amphetamine based. And it was like diet pills for housewives. Yes. Dexatrim Dexatrim. That's, that's one for sure. Yeah. And I remember, I know you do, when they sold that over the counter. Yeah. And I didn't know what it was, but yeah, it's like you're a housewife. You need to look good for your husband, so, Also you need to have the energy to cook and clean and take care of the kids and all that, right? So pop some of these pills and get to work your figure speed you up, burn it off, right? So they sold it as diet pills, but yeah, I. I think, God, I, I gotta stop making George Carlin references, but he talked about that and how the women would just grind their teeth down because they're so amped up. Well, those

Chris: 49:24

were the days, right. You could just go buy amphetamines

Jeff: 49:27

over the counter. Yeah. And she's gonna have dinner ready when you get home. Yeah. Slippers, paper. Yeah. Cleaver. Yeah. There you go. Alright. That is another episode. If you like this kind of stuff, then this is your type of podcast. And so what you need to do is follow us on whatever platform you listen to podcasts on, because that way you're gonna get new episodes delivered to you every single Tuesday when they drop. While you are there, we would really appreciate it if you would rate us. Of course, we'd be really happy if you'd give us five stars. And while you are there, go ahead and type something. It doesn't matter what you type, but the way some of these apps work is if you type something there, it makes it easier for people to discover the show. We have a website that is Subpar Talks dot com. There you can email us. You can leave us a voicemail. If you wanna make suggestions for topics we should cover on future episodes, please go ahead and do that. We are on social media, on Twitter or X. We are at Subpar Talks on Facebook. We are Subpar Talks. If you wanna follow our personal Twitter accounts, please go ahead and do that as well. On there. I am at@independentjeff and I am at

Chris: 50:55

Chris Bradford,

Jeff: 50:56

tx. And last, but never, ever least, please share@subpartalks on social media. Get the word out to your friends, family, colleagues, whoever you're around, whoever you encounter, because the more people we have listening to this show, that makes it easier for us to get this content to you every single week. You have any final thoughts? Labor Day, job injuries. Getting stuck on amusement park rides drugs.

Chris: 51:27

Just be careful out there. We talked about

Jeff: 51:29

a lot of dangerous shit. Yeah, we did. Yeah. Stay away from uh, amusement park rides and drugs if you wanna play it safe and, and hard drugs. Definitely. Yeah. Hard drugs

Chris: 51:45

qualify that,

Jeff: 51:47

that's like uh, in love actually, when the guy, the, the Billy was his name, the old rockstar. Yeah. He was on live tv and he said, I have a important message of whatever. He said, don't buy drugs. Yeah. Become famous and they give'em to you for free. Very good. That is an episode wrap and we will be back next week. Until then, so long.