E7 - America the Oligarchy and Race

[00:00:00] Jeff: This week, is America an oligarchy? And we try to tackle the heady issue of whether racism is inborn or learned. Welcome to Subpar Talks.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Subpar Talks, where we have conversations about everything. I'm Jeff. 

[00:00:34] Chris: And I'm Chris. 

[00:00:35] Jeff: Thank you so much for joining us for yet another episode. Before we get to this week's topics, we have our standard disclaimer, listener discretion advised. There will be profanity from time to time, and we touch on some hot button issues, those touchy subjects, but we inject humor into all of this stuff.

And if you don't think those two things can coincide or you have a problem with profanity or any of that stuff, then maybe this is not for you. And that's OK. For the rest of you, saddle up, buckle up, get your favorite beverage, get your popcorn ready. Because here we go.

Chris, you sent me a video, not too long ago, about a study that was done at Princeton University. And I started watching this and I was like, oh yeah, I know that study. And I think the reason you sent it to me is because it probably alarmed you, is that safe to say? Pissed you off?

[00:01:42] Chris: I was surprised I, the alarmed, yes, absolutely. Um, I was surprised that it was as grim as it is. 

[00:01:54] Jeff: I think a lot of people are. OK, so this is from a 2014 study done, uh, from a couple of professors at Princeton. And, uh, those professor's names are Martin Gilens and Benjamin Page. And what they did is they examined almost 2000 bills, laws, policies going all the way back to the 1980s.

And then they looked at public opinion polls. So like, uh, you know, what, what is the support among the general American public for these particular issues? And then they looked at well, which laws actually became laws, like which of these bills passed, which of these things became policies in whatever different area and their findings, as Chris said, were pretty grim.

So let me give you the gist. This is a direct quote from the study, but they wrote, "The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial, independent impact on US government policy, while average citizens have little or no independent influence."

OK. That's the grim part. Right? So what they determined is that America is essentially an oligarchy, which is ruled by the few, right, like ruled by the elite. And I mean, you can chime in here if you have anything to add. I'm gonna get to some stats here, uh, that, that kind of bolster their claims, I suppose.

But I'm really glad you sent this to me because I used to discuss this with my students. When this study was first published, it was a big deal. Like it made the rounds in all the major media outlets. But I just kind of fell outta that and I, I moved on to some other things in my classes. But I I'm, I'm glad you sent that because it reminded me of it. But here's why I think it's important to discuss.

And that's why we're, we're talking about it on our show, is it gets to the larger issue of what power we as citizens have in our country? What power should we have in our country? And how much of a say should we have in the direction of our country? Right? Because what's happening now, according to this study, is people like us really don't control just a whole lot of what happens. Right?

[00:04:27] Chris: Right. And I think there's a lot of people that feel that way. And they're right. 

[00:04:31] Jeff: Yeah. They are. I was thinking about that earlier. So, I tell my students, I say everyday average Americans, and then I typically change it to your everyday average Walmart shopper. Like, think about your people at Walmart. Alright? Do they feel like they're in control? 

[00:04:49] Chris: Clearly not!

[00:04:50] Jeff: Clearly not! Like, I don't even know if they have control of their own lives. 

[00:04:54] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:04:54] Jeff: Much less what in the world's going on in the country. Right? OK. So that brings me to this whole point. And this is the larger issue. And, I explain to my students, OK, there are two types of democracy, right?

There's direct democracy where citizens have a direct say in everything that goes on. Like, you vote on all the major issues. But then there's indirect democracy, which is what we have. That's also called a representative democracy. It's also called a Republic. So we elect people to make decisions for us, the major decisions, right?

So we elect representatives, senators, president, state legislators, all that stuff. OK. The reason we have that system is because the people who wrote the constitution did not trust your everyday average Walmart shoppers to make those types of decisions. So...

[00:05:49] Chris: That's very intelligent. 

[00:05:52] Jeff: Yeah, lots of forethought there. They were smart people. Uh, they were pretty arrogant too. Like they were really skeptical of giving everyday average Americans the type of power that would allow them to make those major decisions. So the theory behind representative democracy is that, OK, we're gonna get a say, but the people who we elect are gonna be more knowledgeable, better educated, and therefore in a better position to make informed decisions. Alright? 

[00:06:25] Chris: Right. 

[00:06:25] Jeff: So yeah, that's the whole theory behind it. Now we can get into, well, is it really better educated, more knowledgeable people in Congress? Because I can point to at least a few examples right now where...

[00:06:37] Chris: Not that either. 

[00:06:39] Jeff: Blithering idiots in Congress right now. Maybe we'll mention some of those names in a second.

Part of the issue, and, and I gotta say the end point here is, is I struggle with this kind of thing. But part of the issue is we have some fundamentally undemocratic institutions where you can have a minority of individuals affecting policy and the laws that get passed. And that can affect like the people who fill our federal courts, and the people who fill the executive branch. And I'll mention two right here. The electoral college, a minority of people can determine who becomes president, and the Senate. If you are a sparsely populated state, your citizens have a greater say in the Senate, and that's not even close to having a, a true democracy.

[00:07:35] Chris: Right. Yeah, one I've seen compared a lot are Wyoming and California. 

[00:07:41] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:07:42] Chris: Saying how much more pull Wyoming has than California, by population. 

[00:07:48] Jeff: Yeah. Wyoming has like 600,000 people. 

[00:07:52] Chris: Yeah.

[00:07:52] Jeff: And you can have a few neighborhoods in LA that make up 600,000 people. 

[00:07:58] Chris: Right.

[00:07:58] Jeff: Yeah. OK. So, the, uh, and, and by the way, I have heard this and I don't know where this comes from. But I, I see this retort a lot when people say, oh, we have a democracy and then somebody will respond no, we don't have a democracy. We have a Republic. Well, a Republic is just another name for a representative democracy, the type we have. Like, that doesn't even make sense. That's like saying, I'm gonna have to come up with an analogy, but that's like saying I don't have a, I don't have a mammal, I have a dog.

Like...

[00:08:33] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:08:34] Jeff: It's the same thing. That's what it is. 

[00:08:36] Chris: It's a specific type of. 

[00:08:39] Jeff: Specific type, yes. OK. So, I was curious about this and, and this is their central findings, right? That public opinion on issues doesn't really line up with what actually ends up happening, and that the elites, the oligarchy, as they call it, are really the ones controlling things. OK. Well, here are some polling numbers. I got all these except one I think from Peer Research and Gallup. And these are all things that we do not have right now in this country that a majority of Americans want. There is a bill that's been passed by the House and it's now in the Senate called the Equality Act. Basically what it would do is, it would do what the Civil Rights Act of 1964 did for minorities and women, but it would protect LGBTQ individuals. So you would not be able to exclude a gay person for example, from your restaurant. OK. Right now, that's allowed under federal law and depending on the state...

[00:09:46] Chris: Or encouraged, depending on the state. 

[00:09:50] Jeff: Depending on the state, yeah.

Immigration policy, 81% support giving a pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants. 

[00:09:59] Chris: Whoa. That's high. 

[00:10:00] Jeff: Provided they meet certain conditions and all that. Yeah, it is, 81. And yeah, I gotta say, I'm glad you mentioned that, if you ever see a poll in America that is that high, that is astounding. Like, as divided as we are, if you see something in the sixties, which I've got some down here, that is remarkable in and of itself. 

[00:10:20] Chris: Absolutely. 

[00:10:22] Jeff: Yeah. Weed, 60% of Americans want recreational use of marijuana to be legal. Uh, guns, 90% of Americans think we need universal background checks. So, right now the law is if you buy from a licensed gun dealer, right, they have to conduct a background check. But if you just do, it's called the gun show loophole, but if you sell a gun to somebody just privately, they're not under any obligation under federal law to conduct a background check on that person. So... 

[00:10:56] Chris: Right. Well, and that, we were just talking about an 80%. Now you're at 90%. That's, I mean, you just call that virtually everybody. And the, the very idea, I mean, this is just, since you mentioned that about guns, background checks, that could be a whole other topic by itself. But you know, the very idea, think about what it takes for you to just get a driver's license. You have to take a test, both a written test and a driving test. Um, you have to go renew that every 4, 6, 8 years, whatever it is, depending on where you are. Now, I would argue that the renewal isn't strict enough. OK, just because I got my driver's license eight years ago, 25 years ago, whatever, am I still capable of driving?

[00:11:43] Jeff: Right. 

[00:11:44] Chris: Um, I just showed up at an office and signed my name. You know, maybe you do an eye test or something. But the point is, we have those types of regulations over someone getting in a car and driving. And arguably, you're not even putting as many people at risk by driving as you are if you own that gun. 

[00:12:07] Jeff: Yep. 

[00:12:08] Chris: And yet we don't have nearly what we need. And I, I am not an anti-gun person by any means. I think that people who are responsible, can pass the background checks, etc., why not allow them to own the gun, is at least a general feeling. But, even as a gun owner, I would say put as many background checks on there as you can. 

[00:12:42] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:12:43] Chris: Because if I can't pass a background check, that is a reasonable background check, then no, I shouldn't be allowed to own it. And if 90% of the people are feeling that way and we can't get something done in that respect, there's something very, very wrong. 

[00:13:02] Jeff: Yep. And it gets to who's driving policy. Uh, and it's not us. It's not everyday average Americans. Speaking of driver's licenses, uh, I came across this video on YouTube probably four or five years ago, but it was like a, a Libertarian, uh, convention or something. Like they had Libertarian candidates for office up on the stage and they had people asking them questions. And one guy gets a question, if anybody out there doesn't know what Libertarians are, like, they want as minimal government intervention in anything as possible, like bare bones government. They're not anarchists, but they don't want any kind of government regulation anywhere.

But anyway, this candidate gets asked, what do you think about the government issuing driver's licenses? And for normal people, we say, why, why are you even asking that like, that's what government does, right? Like, OK. 

[00:13:59] Chris: Right. 

[00:14:00] Jeff: But this guy, the Libertarian candidate said, well, you know, I think it's a reasonable thing that the government issues driver's licenses. I wanna make sure people know how to operate a vehicle when they're on the road next to me. And he starts getting booed. Boo, boo, how dare you say the government issue driver's licenses. And then this one idiot next to him said a license for, to be able to drive, what's next? I'm gonna have to have a license to operate my toaster? That's what he said. And of course everybody cheered and it's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. Just, I don't even know where to start with that, but anyway. 

[00:14:36] Chris: Well, and that, I mean, just as far as, you know, what people can think about government, though, there are so many false equivalencies out there like that. Like, you can't even make a logical argument when you're comparing A to B and they are nothing alike. 

[00:14:52] Jeff: Right. Comparing a vehicle to a toaster. Like, that's just not even close. OK. Still on guns, 81% support red flag laws. Do you know what red flag laws are? 

[00:15:05] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:15:05] Jeff: Yeah. So, if somebody has been shown to be a danger, then you can confiscate their weapons until that issue is resolved, whatever it is, like a restraining order or something like that. Uh, 67% wanna ban assault weapons. Abortion, 61% think abortion should be legal in all or most cases.

62% want universal healthcare. Uh, when it comes to elections, 65% want election day to be a national holiday. 65% want automatic registration. 62% want a $15 an hour minimum wage. So, these are just a few examples, and we could list many more where, what the majority of Americans want is not what we're getting.

And clearly the study is on to something because there is a disconnect between what happens as far as policy outcomes, laws, and all that to what everyday average Americans want. But here's, and I wanna get your take on this. This is where I struggle. It gets to how much power we should have as citizens to make decisions. But what kind of power should that be? Because on the one hand, if we're truly, if we're truly free, then why not let us decide? Why not let us have that power? And those laws will succeed or fail on their merits. Like when you live under something and it, it doesn't work, then clearly we need to get rid of it.

[00:16:40] Chris: Right. 

[00:16:41] Jeff: But on the other hand, people can make some really stupid decisions, right. Really uneducated ill-informed decisions, and that could cause the rest of the people harm, because they lack that education and information. On the other hand, we have a bunch of dip shits in Congress, too, who make decisions based on false information.

So I don't know. I don't know where that line is. 

[00:17:07] Chris: Well, and what further complicates it in Congress is you've got those dip shits that don't, that they're not even well informed on the topic. Plus they're getting money fed into their pockets. At least the average American isn't getting money fed into their pockets for making their stupid decisions. They're only making the stupid decision because they're stupid. 

[00:17:31] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:17:31] Chris: And, and when I say stupid, I mean like, you know, being able to evaluate all of the, you know, all the ins and outs of everything and go, is this the right decision? Not just because one person disagrees and calls it stupid. But I mean, like you have to look, is it, that's another thing is so many people voting against their own best interests. Amazing that, you know, you, you go for the lines that are being fed to you, and then you just accept that, oh, what they told me is the right thing, but then not following through and seeing, for example right here, that, I voted for these people because of everything that they said. But then when they get in office, those people aren't doing any of those things that they talked about, or literally the opposite.

So that's where you're not voting in your own best interest. 

[00:18:30] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:18:31] Chris: But anyway, I mean the, that whole idea of, you know, who, where should you put the power, part of that problem is regardless of whether it's with the people or, or the, the legislative bodies is, you know, it honestly comes down a lot to where they're able to get their money from, because that's the influence. I mean, it it's so unfortunate that it's that way, but it's, it's a fact. 

[00:19:01] Jeff: Who wrote The Jungle? Was that, uh, there's two authors, there's Upton Sinclair, and Sinclair Lewis. And I never, I think it's Upton Sinclair. Anyway, he has a quote that I really like. He said, or wrote, "It is very difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon him not understanding it."

And I just think about the 90% want universal background checks. Well, who doesn't? The NRA. So when they're continually lining members of Congress' pockets with their money and helping them get reelected, then...

[00:19:39] Chris: Yeah. They say, yeah, that doesn't look like a good idea. 

[00:19:43] Jeff: Yeah. See, I don't understand that. No, you don't need that. Yeah. 

[00:19:45] Chris: Right. Or all the schools getting shot up? 

[00:19:49] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:19:50] Chris: Well, I wanna throw this in too. This is, uh, going way back. So 1987, in the movie Wall Street. And I didn't see that movie until the early nineties, actually 90 or 91. But I've seen the movie so many times since then. I love it, it's a great movie. But one of the things that was said by Michael Douglas's character in the movie really struck me back then. Like, you know, I was, I just didn't get it. I didn't understand the implications of it all. But he is talking to Charlie Sheen's character and said, you're not naive enough to believe we're living in a democracy, are you? And the context of that was saying, it's all of the companies, the investors, the money that's flowing that is making these decisions, not these average American people, because it's the money that's speaking.

And anyway, when I heard that, I thought, well, that's a strange thing to be saying. But, I was naive in my own right at the time. 

[00:21:01] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:21:01] Chris: And you know, the more I've seen, the more I've heard, the more I've experienced and go, not a truer statement ever spoken. 

[00:21:11] Jeff: Right. It's amazing that it took this long for such a study to come out. I mean, this is 2014. I was like, why had nobody ever looked at that before? I mean, I, I don't know if it had ever occurred to anybody before to look at it, but... 

[00:21:26] Chris: Was there the ability to do it before? Is there more transparency in some of that information now? 

[00:21:36] Jeff: I don't know. It was such a comprehensive study. I, I maybe that's the been the deterrent, that it would take so much. Because they went all the way back, public opinion polls and looking at policies and laws from, I know at least the 1980s, but they might have gone back before that. So, you talk about a slog, having to sift through all that information. 

[00:21:57] Chris: Yeah. Really.

[00:21:58] Jeff: That's a, a lot. 

[00:21:59] Chris: That would be your data analyst. 

[00:22:02] Jeff: There you go, yes. 

[00:22:04] Chris: From the top jobs. Yeah. 

[00:22:06] Jeff: That's right. OK. So there you go. That is America the Oligarchy. Sorry if that was depressing to you. Sorry if you thought you held a lot of sway in the good old USA, but you probably don't, but that's OK. We've made it this far. We can just keep plugging along.

[00:22:22] Chris: So I, I recently got into just going through some different standup comedies on Netflix. Some that I hadn't seen, a couple that I had seen and decided to watch again. One of them was Richard Pryor. One was Eddie Murphy. Then I also watched a, and so obviously those were older. Um, then I watched a recent one from Chris Rock, and I believe the original of it was in 2018.

And then they did kind of a remix, extended version in 2021. But in any case, obviously that's relatively recent. So, in one of those earlier ones, and so I'm talking seventies or eighties, one of the comedians said that racism is learned, it's taught, that people aren't just born racist. That this is taught from one person and one group to another, and that that's where all of that comes from. 

And when I heard that at first, I thought, you know what? Yeah, that's reasonable because, kind of, if you are in an environment where racism is prevalent, then you are certainly more likely to be picking up on those attitudes and, and ideas and verbalization, all of that kind of thing that you may not feel so much that way about if you weren't in that same environment. 

Then I watched the Chris Rock show and he had the exact opposite take on it. And so as soon as he said this, I was kind of taken aback. He said, racism is inborn, it's there from the beginning, and he talks about how like kids, he, so he is talking about kids and at one point he talks about bullies and, you know, there are just kid bullies and like, you don't have to be taught to be a bully.

And he even gave an example, like other kids bite other kids. Well, that's not because one kid taught the other kid to bite. It's we've got our own defense mechanisms, that people can just be mean, and by nature. And it's like, you kind of have to be taught how to live in a society, you know. Like, hey, these things are not OK.

Maybe it's OK to feel this way, but it's not OK to act this way based on that feeling, whatever it happens to be. But his whole take on it was, there is just this inborn kind of meanness, whatever, in people that breeds that racism and that it's not taught at all. And my extension of that was just thinking that there's certainly, and since he talked about kids, was, there is certainly this feeling among kids that you look for differences to point out, and that makes you greater than, or less than, other people. If you have such and such, and I don't mean materially, but obviously that can be part of it, but if you are looking at other people and they are different from you, then that becomes the criteria of that other person or that other group of people being less than. You're gonna put yourself kind of on a pedestal, and the others are not. Same thing with bullies and so on. 

So that just all got me thinking as to, you know, there's two completely different schools of thought. The interesting thing about this is that both of the people who said this were black comedians. And so they're both black people having come through, and, and relatively the same age too. So having come through the same generational experiences, but had completely different takes on this. 

[00:26:29] Jeff: That's really interesting. 

[00:26:31] Chris: Yeah. Uh, so what is your take on that? What, what do you think as far as kind of where that comes from or where the influence comes from? 

[00:26:41] Jeff: I think I'm more prone to side with, did you say it was Eddie Murphy? The first one?. 

[00:26:47] Chris: I think so. It was possibly Richard Pryor. Now he's obviously somewhat, was somewhat older. 

[00:26:55] Jeff: Yeah. Well, regardless, I think I tend to side more with, if it was Eddie Murphy than Chris Rock. I understand what Chris Rock is saying, that kids get bullied on the playground because they're different. Like whatever that might be.

But in terms of whether race is a factor in that, racism is automatically putting an entire race above another, like white supremacy. And I don't think if, I don't think if a kid is bullying a kid, say there's one lone black kid among a bunch of white kids and the black kid is getting bullied, I don't think that's necessarily racism because I don't think, I don't think kids, young kids, they, they don't even have any concept of what racism is. They're just picking on that kid because he looks different. 

[00:27:54] Chris: Right. 

[00:27:55] Jeff: Yeah. I don't think the actual, I don't think his race has anything to do with it in that context. Although, and I have, have you heard this? Um, I didn't become aware of this, uh, and, and maybe this was just my ignorance on it, but the idea or the notion that race is a social construct. Like it's not a thing. It's not like ethnicity, like where you come from in the world. The fact that your skin is a certain pigment somehow makes you, you know what I mean? Like it's not, it's a social construct.

[00:28:31] Chris: Yeah. I started hearing that recently, relatively recently. I'm gonna say the last two or three years probably is, is when I was picking up on hearing that repeatedly. And I, I found that very interesting cause yeah, I mean, it makes you think about, exactly, like what defines race. Well, you can define nationalities, like you said, where you come from. But white, there is no nationality that's white. 

[00:29:03] Jeff: Right. 

[00:29:04] Chris: There are geographical locations that might define white versus, but even looking at the United States, any white person in the United States is not from here. 

[00:29:19] Jeff: Right. 

[00:29:19] Chris: I mean, not originally. Like they all came from somewhere else. The only people in the United States that are native are not white, by definition.

So yeah, that, that's very interesting to think of grouping people in that way, because then when you think about, you know, for example, a white race, well, that encompasses people from all different countries. 

[00:29:48] Jeff: Yeah. What are we talking about? 

[00:29:50] Chris: Yeah. And, and when you're talking about that many different countries, then you're certainly talking about a whole lot of different cultures and belief systems, and... 

[00:30:01] Jeff: And I gotta say with Chris Rock's view, if you say that racism is in inborn, like it's innate within a person, I think that can present all sorts of issues. Because you are giving people an out, if that's the right word, to have that particular view. 

[00:30:23] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:30:24] Jeff: And, if you say that, well, they can't help it, that it's inborn, it's innate, or whatever. Then what does that mean in terms of our relationships with people of different races. And then that affects what happens with our laws and the policies that we have and the just common practices and norms in society. Like, I, I think it's a dangerous road to go down.

[00:30:51] Chris: True. I mean, I would say more generally speaking, there are certainly things that are, if you wanna say inborn, I mean, take the example in saying like a kid bites another kid or, or hits another kid or whatever. Yeah, there is certainly a natural instinct in people to fight back. Little kids hit, pull hair, bite, whatever it is. It's not like somebody taught them that, but they're right there. If the very fact that that could be inborn, we can teach them to be different. You know, this is not OK. 

[00:31:32] Jeff: I also, um, you said it is interesting. I think it is too, that both of those comedians are black. I wonder what their differences were growing up. Like where did they grow up? I don't know. I don't know where Eddie Murphy's from. I don't know where Chris Rock is from. I have no idea, but what were their experiences like growing up? I can, I can see, I mean, it's hard to do. But put yourself in a black person's shoes. And if you're constantly confronted with white people day in, day out, and they look down on you, talk down to you, whatever, then I can absolutely see how your conclusion could be well, that's just inborn. That's just the way it is. 

[00:32:15] Chris: Right. 

[00:32:17] Jeff: OK. Who's the funnier comedian, Eddie Murphy or Chris Rock?

[00:32:21] Chris: I really like Chris Rock. I have seen, um, smaller bits of Chris Rock. I think I'm gonna have to say Eddie Murphy. 

[00:32:31] Jeff: Yeah. 

[00:32:32] Chris: I, I really like Chris Rock, but I think Eddie Murphy, Eddie Murphy I think is more of a performer. I think he was a better performer. And I think that coupled with his comedy makes the whole thing better overall. And you can get somebody who tells funny jokes, but then they're just telling funny jokes. Then you get somebody like Eddie Murphy who is much more of a performer on top of that. 

[00:33:00] Jeff: Yes. 

[00:33:00] Chris: And I think it really adds to it.

[00:33:03] Jeff: Yeah. I think he's got more in his, his, uh, repertoire than, than Chris Rock. Chris Rock, um, is amazingly funny. I think a lot of what makes him funny is his delivery, his voice, and his timing. I think that's...

[00:33:18] Chris: Yes. 

[00:33:19] Jeff: What, part of what makes him funny. But he's got, obviously got good material. Yeah. And I gotta say I, uh, we, we should do a, a show on standup comedians in the future, but I really haven't seen a lot of Richard Pryor stuff, which I feel bad about because everybody always says he's like top five comedian ever. I just, haven't seen a lot of, a lot of the stuff he's had. What I've seen of it's been pretty funny, but I just haven't. 

[00:33:43] Chris: I really haven't either. And I just came across it by accident.

The, on Netflix is, um, I can't remember the exact name of it, but some, I think it's just called, uh, Richard Pryor Live In Concert. But it says something on there about, his like, the famous concert from 1979. I don't know what was special about it compared to any others. Um, but it was really good and I, no, I agree. I've not seen much of him either. Um, but, but it was really good. And you know, of course that through Netflix leads you down this path. And the Eddie Murphy Raw I've seen before, that Chris Rock I had seen before, but I revisited those after. And now you asking me which of those I thought, which I think are funnier, probably let me evaluate that better, seeing all of those back to back then. And Chris Rock was actually making references back to Richard Pryor as well. So, you know, they're all gonna be heavily influenced by others too, but...

[00:34:51] Jeff: No doubt. 

[00:34:52] Chris: Yeah, I think I'd have to say, I think I'd have to say Eddie Murphy. And I haven't seen a ton of Eddie Murphy in movies, but I've seen enough and he's just hilarious in his movies too.

[00:35:05] Jeff: There's a movie, uh, I think it's still on, still on Netflix. Maybe it's, I don't remember what it's on. I lose track of which, what movies are on which platform or whatever. 

[00:35:15] Chris: Yeah. 

[00:35:15] Jeff: Which means we probably have too many platforms, too many streaming devices. But it's on something. I think it was on Netflix, but maybe not.

It's called Dolemite Is My Name. Have you seen that? Have you...

[00:35:27] Chris: I've heard of it. I have not seen it. 

[00:35:30] Jeff: It's uh, it's based on a true story about a guy back in the sixties and seventies and, and, um, it's a really good movie. Like, you don't have to know anything about it going in, but it was one of those movies where you watch it and you're entertained. And Eddie Murphy gave a great performance, but you end up wanting to learn more about the character that he played, like the actual guy. And yeah, it's, it's good. So, that's uh, one of my recommendations. 

[00:35:59] Chris: OK, well, I'll have to check that out. 

[00:36:02] Jeff: Alright. Well, there you go. That is America the Oligarchy and race.

I think race, that's the elephant in the room, but I think we're probably gonna revisit some, some issues later on cuz there's a, there's a lot to unpack there. Wouldn't you say? 

[00:36:18] Chris: Absolutely. Yeah, we could probably make the whole show about it if we wanted to. 

[00:36:24] Jeff: Start a race podcast. 

[00:36:26] Chris: Yeah.

[00:36:32] Jeff: if you like that kind of stuff, then you are our kind of people and we would love to have you back for more. So whatever platform you're listening to this on, go ahead and follow us that way. You'll get new episodes delivered every single week, when we issue one. So, uh, you don't even have to do anything.

Episodes will come to you automatically. And while you're there, go ahead and rate us. We would be ever so grateful if you'd give us five stars and go ahead and leave a review. Doesn't matter what you say. You can say anything. We just like hearing from our listeners. So we'd appreciate that. If you wanna find out more about the show itself or about Chris or me, or you wanna email us or leave us a voicemail or whatever, you can do that on our website, that is subpartalks.com.

You can follow us on social media. On Twitter, we are @subpartalks. On Facebook, we are Subpar Talks. And if you wanna follow us personally on Twitter, on there, I am at @independentjeff.

[00:37:30] Chris: And I'm @chrisbradfordtx. 

[00:37:33] Jeff: And finally, we would love for you to get the word out about Subpar Talks. Share this on social media. Talk to your friends, your colleagues. Talk to your boss. Go into your boss's office and tell them you found a great podcast. And, uh, you, you want them to, to listen to it and maybe you can get a raise out of that. I don't know how that would work, but maybe so. Who knows? 

[00:37:55] Chris: Hope you don't get fired. 

[00:37:57] Jeff: Yeah, don't get fired. And if you do, please don't blame us. We're sorry. But your boss, if you, if they fire you for that, they're probably an asshole. You don't wanna work for 'em anyway. So anyway, get the word out. Uh, because the more listeners we have, the easier it is for us to bring us, uh, or bring you this content each and every week, which we absolutely love doing. 

Chris, final thoughts on race or the fact that we have no say whatsoever, uh, as to what happens in this country?

[00:38:28] Chris: It's a sad, sad state of affairs. 

[00:38:32] Jeff: It is. 

[00:38:33] Chris: I, I would like to hope that that those kinds of things could be improved. I'm not sure that we're going the right direction, for that. 

[00:38:40] Jeff: I'm not either. And that's kind of depressing, which is, I don't know. Go grab a drink. Maybe that's what we need to do. Just drink. 

[00:38:46] Chris: Well, I, I will say this. I, I think that, that they, these things need to be talked about, you know. 

[00:38:52] Jeff: Absolutely. 

[00:38:53] Chris: If, if we're not going the right direction, I don't know what is the way to fix it. But being silent is not the right way. 

[00:39:01] Jeff: I couldn't agree more. Alright. That is this week's episode and we will be back for another one next week. Until then, so long.